7 ms·

I'm a hockey goalie, too. I think we have to think about non-NHL goalies too. Not every adult is 2m high and if we make net size bigger we will effectively make

by miskin 6y ago

I'm a hockey goalie, too. I think we have to think about non-NHL goalies too. Not every adult is 2m high and if we make net size bigger we will effectively make the game unplayable for "average" goalies. When a shooter shoots on you from 3-4 meters, there is not enough time to react too much and you play mostly angles and block. I can imagine that kids playing in a much larger net would lead to a very different game where shooting is much more beneficial than any other option. Yes, NHL is what most people watch on TV, but there are millions of people playing the game that would have it ruined.

Gene_Parmesan 6y ago
There's nothing preventing them from having different sized nets for different levels. Basketball 3-pt lines are different dimensions per level, for instance.
- IgorPartola 6y ago
  Which is different from soccer. One thing I really like about soccer is the human error element. They don’t use video replays at the highest levels of the game because the game should be exactly the same whether it’s a bunch of kids playing with the only ball in their neighborhood or the World Cup finale.
  - ajuc 6y ago
    Kids are playing soccer with all kinds of weird goal sizes, the standard one at the schools I've seen was about 50% the size of the "real" ones. Nobody really talks about it because it doesn't matter as long as it's the same size for both sides. Kids are also often playing with 1 goal and 1 goalkeeper and 2 teams trying to score (you have to move past half the pitch after regaining possession before shooting)- that way on 1 field you can have 2 games going on at once and only 1 person has to be the goalie in each of these games. And we've played soccer on random backyards - you just put 2 backpacks as the goalposts and you're ready to go. I think the focus on rules and dimensions is very american, kids just want to dribble and shoot, the score and the minute details aren't important :). As for replay they were introduced in high-level football last few years. It's called VAR and most fans hate it because it spoils the celebrations after a goal is scored and you have to wait to know if it's really a goal or not.
    - veggieburglar 6y ago
      Not only that, but VAR has consistently produced some shocking and unexplainable decisions. They haven’t quite gotten the implementation correct. Offside calls are improved, dangerous tackle/red card reviews are improved (for the most part, there are still some unexplainable decisions), but handball calls are still shambolic. It’s still a human referee up there in the VAR booth and they don’t have to explain their decision making at all. That’s my opinion, at least- I mostly watch the Premier League.
      - ajuc 6y ago
        Premier league has one of the worst VAR I've seen in top 5 leagues. I think Bundesliga does it the best (but still not perfect). > handball calls are still shambolic. that's because handball calls are interpretation of intent and slow motion won't help you with that. So then they changed the rules to ignore the intent and it became a valid strategy for a striker to try to shoot the ball at a defender arm for penalty.
        veggieburglar 6y ago
        I agree that the rule change is problematic, but no matter what the rule is, it is still unevenly enforced.
  - Someone 6y ago
    They didn’t use video replays at the highest levels of the game. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Video_assistant_referee https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Video_assistant_referee
  - amalcon 6y ago
    Basically every pro sport had that philosophy, until they didn't. Eventually, some highly publicized incorrect call (with video evidence, because it was televised) leads to refs using video replay.
ajuc 6y ago
Average top-level soccer game ends something like 2-1 nowadays (maybe 3-1? it's certainly going up with time). Average semi-professional game ends something like 6-3. Average kids on the backyard soccer game ends 10-5 or something like that :) Compared to "real" players kids suck as goalkeepers but so what? They are still having fun. The score doesn't matter that much at that level anyway. Kids also usually play on smaller fields with smaller goals but it's not mainly because of scoring chance - it's because schools don't have the space and kids don't have the stamina to run for 90 minutes on a full sized football pitch. I don't think anybody minds weird scores in lower level games.
- watwut 6y ago
  > Average kids on the backyard soccer game ends 10-5 or something like that :) He is not talking about backyard kids. He is talking about teenagers and adults playing hockey in hobbyist amateur teams. These typically tend to be much better players then kids in backyard.
  - ajuc 6y ago
    These are results of last few matches at regional level that reserve team from my city has played: 5-1, 3-0, 3-4, 11-1, 5-0, 8-0, 14-0 These are semi-professional adults playing on full sized football field with regular sized goals for full 90 minutes. It's not unheard of to score or lose 20 goals at that level :)
    - watwut 6y ago
      I dont see how that is argument for anything. The bigger net would change it to 40 or something. The complain is not about how many goals happen, but about how the game plays. Also, I am still not talking about "reserve team". I am talking about hobbyists who want to have some fun while exercising and socializing, who maybe used to play in some team as kids but dropped out never being close to be stars. Some adults don't just watch sports, they do actively play them.
- miskin 6y ago
azernik 6y ago
The original article proposed different sized goals for different leagues.
- miskin 6y ago
  Sure, it may be solution, but there is a lot of muscle memory that is bound to size of goals. If you have goalkeeper in junior league it would be very complicated to pull him up as backup to senior game. Or from lower league to upper one. All the angles and distances would need to be re-trained when switching leagues. I cannot imagine that, really. I think it would be easier to somehow limit area blocked by goalie equipment together - so if the goalie is very tall, pads would need to be either narrower or not that high to keep some max blocking area. And this is only IF we really need to do some change at all.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]

by miskin 6y ago

Gene_Parmesan 6y ago

There's nothing preventing them from having different sized nets for different levels. Basketball 3-pt lines are different dimensions per level, for instance.

IgorPartola 6y ago
Which is different from soccer. One thing I really like about soccer is the human error element. They don’t use video replays at the highest levels of the game because the game should be exactly the same whether it’s a bunch of kids playing with the only ball in their neighborhood or the World Cup finale.
- ajuc 6y ago
  Kids are playing soccer with all kinds of weird goal sizes, the standard one at the schools I've seen was about 50% the size of the "real" ones. Nobody really talks about it because it doesn't matter as long as it's the same size for both sides. Kids are also often playing with 1 goal and 1 goalkeeper and 2 teams trying to score (you have to move past half the pitch after regaining possession before shooting)- that way on 1 field you can have 2 games going on at once and only 1 person has to be the goalie in each of these games. And we've played soccer on random backyards - you just put 2 backpacks as the goalposts and you're ready to go. I think the focus on rules and dimensions is very american, kids just want to dribble and shoot, the score and the minute details aren't important :). As for replay they were introduced in high-level football last few years. It's called VAR and most fans hate it because it spoils the celebrations after a goal is scored and you have to wait to know if it's really a goal or not.
  - veggieburglar 6y ago
    Not only that, but VAR has consistently produced some shocking and unexplainable decisions. They haven’t quite gotten the implementation correct. Offside calls are improved, dangerous tackle/red card reviews are improved (for the most part, there are still some unexplainable decisions), but handball calls are still shambolic. It’s still a human referee up there in the VAR booth and they don’t have to explain their decision making at all. That’s my opinion, at least- I mostly watch the Premier League.
    - ajuc 6y ago
      Premier league has one of the worst VAR I've seen in top 5 leagues. I think Bundesliga does it the best (but still not perfect). > handball calls are still shambolic. that's because handball calls are interpretation of intent and slow motion won't help you with that. So then they changed the rules to ignore the intent and it became a valid strategy for a striker to try to shoot the ball at a defender arm for penalty.
      - veggieburglar 6y ago
        I agree that the rule change is problematic, but no matter what the rule is, it is still unevenly enforced.
- Someone 6y ago
  They didn’t use video replays at the highest levels of the game. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Video_assistant_referee https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Video_assistant_referee
- amalcon 6y ago
  Basically every pro sport had that philosophy, until they didn't. Eventually, some highly publicized incorrect call (with video evidence, because it was televised) leads to refs using video replay.

ajuc 6y ago

Average top-level soccer game ends something like 2-1 nowadays (maybe 3-1? it's certainly going up with time). Average semi-professional game ends something like 6-3. Average kids on the backyard soccer game ends 10-5 or something like that :) Compared to "real" players kids suck as goalkeepers but so what? They are still having fun. The score doesn't matter that much at that level anyway. Kids also usually play on smaller fields with smaller goals but it's not mainly because of scoring chance - it's because schools don't have the space and kids don't have the stamina to run for 90 minutes on a full sized football pitch. I don't think anybody minds weird scores in lower level games.

watwut 6y ago
> Average kids on the backyard soccer game ends 10-5 or something like that :) He is not talking about backyard kids. He is talking about teenagers and adults playing hockey in hobbyist amateur teams. These typically tend to be much better players then kids in backyard.
- ajuc 6y ago
  These are results of last few matches at regional level that reserve team from my city has played: 5-1, 3-0, 3-4, 11-1, 5-0, 8-0, 14-0 These are semi-professional adults playing on full sized football field with regular sized goals for full 90 minutes. It's not unheard of to score or lose 20 goals at that level :)
  - watwut 6y ago
    I dont see how that is argument for anything. The bigger net would change it to 40 or something. The complain is not about how many goals happen, but about how the game plays. Also, I am still not talking about "reserve team". I am talking about hobbyists who want to have some fun while exercising and socializing, who maybe used to play in some team as kids but dropped out never being close to be stars. Some adults don't just watch sports, they do actively play them.
miskin 6y ago

azernik 6y ago

The original article proposed different sized goals for different leagues.

miskin 6y ago
Sure, it may be solution, but there is a lot of muscle memory that is bound to size of goals. If you have goalkeeper in junior league it would be very complicated to pull him up as backup to senior game. Or from lower league to upper one. All the angles and distances would need to be re-trained when switching leagues. I cannot imagine that, really. I think it would be easier to somehow limit area blocked by goalie equipment together - so if the goalie is very tall, pads would need to be either narrower or not that high to keep some max blocking area. And this is only IF we really need to do some change at all.

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]