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I'm surprised to see people agreeing with this hypothesis ... while commenting on HN. I'm a huge fan of the site rules (https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguideli

I'm surprised to see people agreeing with this hypothesis ... while commenting on HN. I'm a huge fan of the site rules (https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html) and the way they are applied by the moderation team. But that said, HN has the most heavy handed censorship of any site I frequent. Read all the rules from start to finish and ask yourself if you'd be ok following these rules in every Internet forum. "Strong moderation" and "heavy censorship" are the same thing, just dependent on whether you agree with the moderation or not. If you disagree, please show me a site without moderation that still has high quality discussion.

skybrian 6y ago
I like well-moderated sites like Hacker News, but this isn’t going to do anything to prevent extremists from communicating using other forums. What are you going to do, shut down all group chats that doesn’t conform to your standards? It’s a much harder problem than creating a site that has good moderation.
- nindalf 6y ago
  The goal isn't to drive extremism to extinction, it's to make it niche so the mainstream doesn't get infected with it.
  - Spivak 6y ago
    I genuinely don't understand how a forum of people who would almost certainly self-identify as internet-natives don't understand the concept of mainstreaming. We invented all this language do talk about and describe how ideas work and spread in the information age but decided to just pretend it doesn't exist anymore. When did programmers become so... binary? Like it's so frustrating to talk about issues like this on HN because huge swaths of the US part of crowd see themselves as very distant from the "gods & guns" crowd but then fall into the same patterns of thinking that hate and extremism are just part of this world and that the free market (of ideas) will solve everything with proper education and personal responsibility. That any solution that isn't perfect or has a downside for them personally is worthless because they're so insulated from the actual harm being done. That's all fine and good in a world where everyone is acting in good faith, truthfully, and that propaganda, and emotional manipulation don't exist. But the internet isn't some some big Socratic circle. The people in the comments here haven't had their online life improved by a huge subreddit ban, forumn takedown, or twitterspehere implosion after having exactly zero power to do anything other than endure the abuse and hope to not catch their eye and it shows.
  - skybrian 6y ago
    Too late. I mean, sure, it’s nice if it isn’t in your face all the time. I’m glad Google’s SafeSearch exists. But keeping people who are actually curious from finding things is much harder than that, and there are a lot of curious teenagers.
    - penetraitor69 6y ago
      Agreed. But at the same time, a key part of normalization is constant exposure; people who are exposed to extreme views incessantly are less likely to recognize them as "extreme" than those who only see them once in a blue moon, and see them get moderated when they do. This isn't even specific to extremist views or even politics in general; in all parts of life, from the foods people eat, to the religion they practice, to the music they enjoy: people will consider "normal" that which they constantly perceive.
elastolin 6y ago
>show me a site without moderation that still has high quality discussion 4chan
- monocasa 6y ago
  4chan is moderated.
  - elastolin 6y ago
    True. But it has a more relaxed approach to moderation.
akvadrako 6y ago
HN doesn't have very strong moderation. The things people got kicked off twitter and Facebook for saying would be allowed here, at least if they were on topic and phrased politely.
- nindalf 6y ago
  > HN doesn't have very strong moderation FWIW, I agree. But the people who are shadow banned for trivial offences would probably be writing replies to your comment about this ... if they knew they were shadow banned that is. And we wouldn't be able to read it either way, so it's a moot point. Just one data point, but one of my friends has been shadow banned from HN for years and he never even knew that he was. Say what you will about twitter and Facebook, but at least they're up front about bans.
  - akvadrako 6y ago
    Didn't he notice that nobody would reply to his comments? Or is the shadow banning quite advanced?
    - nindalf 6y ago
      He tried commenting a few times, found that no one replied. I guess that discouraged him from commenting so he stopped.
  - penetraitor69 6y ago
    The lack of transparency is really unfortunate. It makes this whole thread sorta ironic: there's a lot of hate in this thread (deserved or not) directed at larger social media sites, but at least those ones aren't both removing peoples' content and deliberately wasting their time by pretending to accept their posts.

skybrian 6y ago

I like well-moderated sites like Hacker News, but this isn’t going to do anything to prevent extremists from communicating using other forums. What are you going to do, shut down all group chats that doesn’t conform to your standards? It’s a much harder problem than creating a site that has good moderation.

nindalf 6y ago
The goal isn't to drive extremism to extinction, it's to make it niche so the mainstream doesn't get infected with it.
- Spivak 6y ago
  I genuinely don't understand how a forum of people who would almost certainly self-identify as internet-natives don't understand the concept of mainstreaming. We invented all this language do talk about and describe how ideas work and spread in the information age but decided to just pretend it doesn't exist anymore. When did programmers become so... binary? Like it's so frustrating to talk about issues like this on HN because huge swaths of the US part of crowd see themselves as very distant from the "gods & guns" crowd but then fall into the same patterns of thinking that hate and extremism are just part of this world and that the free market (of ideas) will solve everything with proper education and personal responsibility. That any solution that isn't perfect or has a downside for them personally is worthless because they're so insulated from the actual harm being done. That's all fine and good in a world where everyone is acting in good faith, truthfully, and that propaganda, and emotional manipulation don't exist. But the internet isn't some some big Socratic circle. The people in the comments here haven't had their online life improved by a huge subreddit ban, forumn takedown, or twitterspehere implosion after having exactly zero power to do anything other than endure the abuse and hope to not catch their eye and it shows.
- skybrian 6y ago
  Too late. I mean, sure, it’s nice if it isn’t in your face all the time. I’m glad Google’s SafeSearch exists. But keeping people who are actually curious from finding things is much harder than that, and there are a lot of curious teenagers.
  - penetraitor69 6y ago
    Agreed. But at the same time, a key part of normalization is constant exposure; people who are exposed to extreme views incessantly are less likely to recognize them as "extreme" than those who only see them once in a blue moon, and see them get moderated when they do. This isn't even specific to extremist views or even politics in general; in all parts of life, from the foods people eat, to the religion they practice, to the music they enjoy: people will consider "normal" that which they constantly perceive.

elastolin 6y ago

>show me a site without moderation that still has high quality discussion 4chan

monocasa 6y ago
4chan is moderated.
- elastolin 6y ago
  True. But it has a more relaxed approach to moderation.

akvadrako 6y ago

HN doesn't have very strong moderation. The things people got kicked off twitter and Facebook for saying would be allowed here, at least if they were on topic and phrased politely.

nindalf 6y ago
> HN doesn't have very strong moderation FWIW, I agree. But the people who are shadow banned for trivial offences would probably be writing replies to your comment about this ... if they knew they were shadow banned that is. And we wouldn't be able to read it either way, so it's a moot point. Just one data point, but one of my friends has been shadow banned from HN for years and he never even knew that he was. Say what you will about twitter and Facebook, but at least they're up front about bans.
- akvadrako 6y ago
  Didn't he notice that nobody would reply to his comments? Or is the shadow banning quite advanced?
  - nindalf 6y ago
    He tried commenting a few times, found that no one replied. I guess that discouraged him from commenting so he stopped.
- penetraitor69 6y ago
  The lack of transparency is really unfortunate. It makes this whole thread sorta ironic: there's a lot of hate in this thread (deserved or not) directed at larger social media sites, but at least those ones aren't both removing peoples' content and deliberately wasting their time by pretending to accept their posts.