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Italians also weren't considered "white" for a while in early US history, I believe. The linguist John McWhorter mentioned on his podcast that he would persona

by jjeaff 6y ago

Italians also weren't considered "white" for a while in early US history, I believe. The linguist John McWhorter mentioned on his podcast that he would personally capitalize white, just like Black, were it not for the fact that white supremacists started that practice long ago. And so they kind of ruined the usage since capitalizing white became indicative of that particular meaning (the supremacist one).

cforrester 6y ago
> Italians also weren't considered "white" for a while in early US history, I believe. I think this is more of a concept illustrating how arbitrary racial classifications are, rather than an actual reality. Historically, Italians in the Jim Crow era of American history were admitted to whites-only facilities and their marriages to people of British descent were not considered interracial, which I think shows handily that although they were mistreated based on their ethnicity, they were still considered white.
- selimthegrim 6y ago
  Louis Prima is a notable counterexample, having been barred from whites-only facilities during his career. He did take a role it was felt inappropriate for someone of African descent to take, so go figure.
klyrs 6y ago
> Italians also weren't considered "white" for a while in early US history, I believe. No, we weren't. And it's complicated. Half of my family is from southern Italy, and their skin is olive-brown. I've seen southern Italians being mistaken for middle easterners several times. Little surprise, as southern Italy was conquered many times over the course of history, by various Mediterranean peoples. But we gloss over this, and equate Europe with whiteness. Italian and Irish diaspora in the US benefit from this new classification (I'm actually unsure of when that change happened), and aside from my great-grandparents (who were immigrants), that side of my family was generally welcome wherever they've moved within the US.

by jjeaff 6y ago

cforrester 6y ago

> Italians also weren't considered "white" for a while in early US history, I believe. I think this is more of a concept illustrating how arbitrary racial classifications are, rather than an actual reality. Historically, Italians in the Jim Crow era of American history were admitted to whites-only facilities and their marriages to people of British descent were not considered interracial, which I think shows handily that although they were mistreated based on their ethnicity, they were still considered white.

selimthegrim 6y ago
Louis Prima is a notable counterexample, having been barred from whites-only facilities during his career. He did take a role it was felt inappropriate for someone of African descent to take, so go figure.

klyrs 6y ago

> Italians also weren't considered "white" for a while in early US history, I believe. No, we weren't. And it's complicated. Half of my family is from southern Italy, and their skin is olive-brown. I've seen southern Italians being mistaken for middle easterners several times. Little surprise, as southern Italy was conquered many times over the course of history, by various Mediterranean peoples. But we gloss over this, and equate Europe with whiteness. Italian and Irish diaspora in the US benefit from this new classification (I'm actually unsure of when that change happened), and aside from my great-grandparents (who were immigrants), that side of my family was generally welcome wherever they've moved within the US.