4 ms·

Spain declares delivery app riders to be staff, in EU first

31 points by finphil 6y ago

toomuchtodo 6y ago
Sort of a technicality, as the UK Supreme Court did so first but post Brexit. Germany, France, and Italy have larger populations than Spain (in the EU), so it’s important those countries encourage similar outcomes.
- PeterisP 6y ago
  As far as I understand, the UK situation was a court ruling about that an earlier general law should apply for the particular situation of Uber drivers and the other companies are likely to ensure that their situation is different and try to still treat them as contractors. On the other hand, this is the government explicitly passing a law stating that they are to be treated as employees, so at least technically it's different, and IMHO preferable - clear laws to state what rules apply for a very common specific case that affects very many people, instead of waiting years on court rulings and appeals for each company separately.
  - toomuchtodo 6y ago
    The nuance is taken. Good points.
stevenalowe 6y ago
Did they also declare how delivery companies' business models can adapt, since this changes the fundamental assumption (gig economy) of it?
- PeterisP 6y ago
  The delivery companies can adapt to the same rules as any other employer. Nothing special is needed, their workforce costs just turn out to be a bit more expensive than they hoped - so they can rise the prices, decrease profitability or get out of the business. If some business model relies on an assumption that they will get a "separate economy" with weaker worker protections than what the country has decided all workers should have, and can't function when that assumption turns out to be false, then, well, that's on the people who made that mistaken assumption, they can try to compete with delivery companies with full-time drivers under comparable rules for worker protection and compensation. There's no unalienable right to have all your drivers as non-employee contractors or to have your business model preserved, however, workers do have a right for state protection (e.g. section 40 of Spanish constitution), so one could even argue that the state has a duty to ensure that the gig economy (at least the most company-friendly models of it) does not happen.
  - stevenalowe 6y ago
    Interesting. So if I offer a gig - contract work with clear terms and limits - and you accept the gig often enough, bam! You’re my employee whether either of us wanted to or not. Not buying it.
    - stevenalowe 6y ago
      Addendum: many drivers in the US (don’t know about Spain) drive for Uber and Lyft. Which one would be the employer?
      - webmobdev 6y ago
        Both of them.
    - webmobdev 6y ago
      Or rather, "gig contract" employment is no longer valid in delivery services without meeting the minimum requirements spelled out by the ruling / government / regulator (I am sure the same ruling can also be applied to other businesses, but this particular case was delivery services).
DeonPenny 6y ago
Spains youth unemployment is to high for moves like this

31 points by finphil 6y ago

Sort of a technicality, as the UK Supreme Court did so first but post Brexit. Germany, France, and Italy have larger populations than Spain (in the EU), so it’s important those countries encourage similar outcomes.

PeterisP 6y ago
As far as I understand, the UK situation was a court ruling about that an earlier general law should apply for the particular situation of Uber drivers and the other companies are likely to ensure that their situation is different and try to still treat them as contractors. On the other hand, this is the government explicitly passing a law stating that they are to be treated as employees, so at least technically it's different, and IMHO preferable - clear laws to state what rules apply for a very common specific case that affects very many people, instead of waiting years on court rulings and appeals for each company separately.
- toomuchtodo 6y ago
  The nuance is taken. Good points.

stevenalowe 6y ago

Did they also declare how delivery companies' business models can adapt, since this changes the fundamental assumption (gig economy) of it?

PeterisP 6y ago
The delivery companies can adapt to the same rules as any other employer. Nothing special is needed, their workforce costs just turn out to be a bit more expensive than they hoped - so they can rise the prices, decrease profitability or get out of the business. If some business model relies on an assumption that they will get a "separate economy" with weaker worker protections than what the country has decided all workers should have, and can't function when that assumption turns out to be false, then, well, that's on the people who made that mistaken assumption, they can try to compete with delivery companies with full-time drivers under comparable rules for worker protection and compensation. There's no unalienable right to have all your drivers as non-employee contractors or to have your business model preserved, however, workers do have a right for state protection (e.g. section 40 of Spanish constitution), so one could even argue that the state has a duty to ensure that the gig economy (at least the most company-friendly models of it) does not happen.
- stevenalowe 6y ago
  Interesting. So if I offer a gig - contract work with clear terms and limits - and you accept the gig often enough, bam! You’re my employee whether either of us wanted to or not. Not buying it.
  - stevenalowe 6y ago
    Addendum: many drivers in the US (don’t know about Spain) drive for Uber and Lyft. Which one would be the employer?
    - webmobdev 6y ago
      Both of them.
  - webmobdev 6y ago
    Or rather, "gig contract" employment is no longer valid in delivery services without meeting the minimum requirements spelled out by the ruling / government / regulator (I am sure the same ruling can also be applied to other businesses, but this particular case was delivery services).

DeonPenny 6y ago

Spains youth unemployment is to high for moves like this