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Same here, and I'm also a bit terrified by the popularity of Tailwind. It makes me wonder if I'd have to resign from nice project one day because it is stuck in

Same here, and I'm also a bit terrified by the popularity of Tailwind. It makes me wonder if I'd have to resign from nice project one day because it is stuck in the framework. I think that more projects in Tailwind might mean less space for skilled CSS people. I believe that Tailwind is a trap for people that don't like CSS, because if they one day come to a project with regular CSS there will be a lot of unlearning before they will start working at full-pace. I might be biased because I love CSS and I find it the easiest thing in web-dev, especially now - without IE in the way and with flexbox + grid fellas, not to mention components. It gave me a lot of guidelines how to think about abstractions and how to build them. This translated nicely to other aspects of programming.

yurishimo 6y ago
> ...Tailwind is a trap for people that don't like CSS... I can't speak on the validity of this for all devs, but for me, I really enjoy CSS and I love Tailwind too. CSS is there for an escape hatch when I need it, but then I can use the utilities for a lot of mundane styling and placement. Tailwind can absolutely be used for boring layouts and designs but can also be used for really cool custom stuff like this Diablo 4 landing page from a few years ago[0]. People made cool stuff with Bootstrap and then a bunch of crap also got made. Tools ebb and flow and it's up to us as devs to find what's working for us now and then get the work done. Worrying about the future before you even get started doesn't make sense imo. The reality is very few sites are being worked on continuously for more than a few years, so trying to optimize for that potential maintenance burden doesn't make sense. If your site continues to grow and it becomes painful, that likely is a good problem to have and you can address the issue when you have the team and budget to do so. [0]: http://web.archive.org/web/20191222080351/https://diablo4.blizzard.com/en-us/ http://web.archive.org/web/20191222080351/https://diablo4.bl... & https://twitter.com/tailwindcss/status/1190423327590027264?s=20 https://twitter.com/tailwindcss/status/1190423327590027264?s...
ahuth 6y ago
Tailwind doesn't mean less space for skilled CSS people any more than design systems mean less space for skilled designers, or React means less space for skilled JavaScript folks. Tailwind is a tool that's absolutely for skilled CSS people (you still have to know what everything is doing). And it is much more maintainable for a large number of people working on styling.
- jarek83 6y ago
  > you still have to know what everything is doing Do you? I'm sorry but Tailwind takes quite a lot out of the CSS equation. You only have to learn what each property is doing. Then for example C for cascading, being a great feature of CSS, which with Tailwind you don't even need to know it exists.
  - papertokyo 6y ago
    Yes, you absolutely still need to know how CSS works. You're still using the box model, you're still using floats and flexbox and negative margins to position things, and the most important aspects of cascading still work. Tailwind is just shorthand for CSS prop/value keys that also gives you an easily customizable and maintainable design system, which an increasing number of developers understand. That means that you can be productive immediately on a new codebase instead of having to spend hours getting your head around the multitude of CSS files that may or may not have been organized in a way that makes sense to you.
    - jarek83 6y ago
      > you're still using floats and flexbox and negative margins to position things See - floats and negative margins are one of the code smells if are used to position things (yes, they have valid applications but in very limited use cases) that make me believe, that if you are still using them in 2021 then my worries about how Tailwind make dangerous shortcuts are valid.
      - papertokyo 6y ago
        You don't need to use them, but since they are valid ways of positioning things in CSS, Tailwind has utilities for them. They're as 'dangerous' as they are in handwritten CSS. You can get by with only using flexbox and absolute utilities and that's great. You're still using CSS...just more efficiently.
rcurry 6y ago
If you think Tailwind means less space for “skilled css people” then doesn’t that mean Tailwind lowers a barrier for entry? Kind of like saying Java or C# reduces the need for skilled assembly programmers? If it does lower a barrier for entry, isn’t that what technology is supposed to do? Honestly, as a new user to Tailwind I think it makes css more accessible to me - it simplifies it to the point that I have a much better understanding of flex and grids and other things than I had before. And I do try to learn how the underlying css works, but tailwind is just a better design language for me, I find I am more productive thinking in Tailwind than thinking in raw css. YMMV of course, but some of us find Korean easier to learn than Chinese and at the end of the day we are both asking for a glass of water or where the restroom is - it’s just that for some of us one language is easier than another.
1shooner 6y ago
Criticism of Tailwind ranges from 'it's just inline css' to 'it's too easy, people will unlearn css'. I see Tailwind as a return to a simpler use of CSS. Comments on this thread talking about 'just write some cascading css' have perhaps not had to deal with the layers of css preprocessor abstraction that have developed. Tailwind is much closer to raw css than some of the SASS, LESS, and Compass mix-ins I have had to wrangle.

yurishimo 6y ago

> ...Tailwind is a trap for people that don't like CSS... I can't speak on the validity of this for all devs, but for me, I really enjoy CSS and I love Tailwind too. CSS is there for an escape hatch when I need it, but then I can use the utilities for a lot of mundane styling and placement. Tailwind can absolutely be used for boring layouts and designs but can also be used for really cool custom stuff like this Diablo 4 landing page from a few years ago[0]. People made cool stuff with Bootstrap and then a bunch of crap also got made. Tools ebb and flow and it's up to us as devs to find what's working for us now and then get the work done. Worrying about the future before you even get started doesn't make sense imo. The reality is very few sites are being worked on continuously for more than a few years, so trying to optimize for that potential maintenance burden doesn't make sense. If your site continues to grow and it becomes painful, that likely is a good problem to have and you can address the issue when you have the team and budget to do so. [0]: http://web.archive.org/web/20191222080351/https://diablo4.blizzard.com/en-us/ http://web.archive.org/web/20191222080351/https://diablo4.bl... & https://twitter.com/tailwindcss/status/1190423327590027264?s=20 https://twitter.com/tailwindcss/status/1190423327590027264?s...

ahuth 6y ago

Tailwind doesn't mean less space for skilled CSS people any more than design systems mean less space for skilled designers, or React means less space for skilled JavaScript folks. Tailwind is a tool that's absolutely for skilled CSS people (you still have to know what everything is doing). And it is much more maintainable for a large number of people working on styling.

jarek83 6y ago
> you still have to know what everything is doing Do you? I'm sorry but Tailwind takes quite a lot out of the CSS equation. You only have to learn what each property is doing. Then for example C for cascading, being a great feature of CSS, which with Tailwind you don't even need to know it exists.
- papertokyo 6y ago
  Yes, you absolutely still need to know how CSS works. You're still using the box model, you're still using floats and flexbox and negative margins to position things, and the most important aspects of cascading still work. Tailwind is just shorthand for CSS prop/value keys that also gives you an easily customizable and maintainable design system, which an increasing number of developers understand. That means that you can be productive immediately on a new codebase instead of having to spend hours getting your head around the multitude of CSS files that may or may not have been organized in a way that makes sense to you.
  - jarek83 6y ago
    > you're still using floats and flexbox and negative margins to position things See - floats and negative margins are one of the code smells if are used to position things (yes, they have valid applications but in very limited use cases) that make me believe, that if you are still using them in 2021 then my worries about how Tailwind make dangerous shortcuts are valid.
    - papertokyo 6y ago
      You don't need to use them, but since they are valid ways of positioning things in CSS, Tailwind has utilities for them. They're as 'dangerous' as they are in handwritten CSS. You can get by with only using flexbox and absolute utilities and that's great. You're still using CSS...just more efficiently.

rcurry 6y ago

If you think Tailwind means less space for “skilled css people” then doesn’t that mean Tailwind lowers a barrier for entry? Kind of like saying Java or C# reduces the need for skilled assembly programmers? If it does lower a barrier for entry, isn’t that what technology is supposed to do? Honestly, as a new user to Tailwind I think it makes css more accessible to me - it simplifies it to the point that I have a much better understanding of flex and grids and other things than I had before. And I do try to learn how the underlying css works, but tailwind is just a better design language for me, I find I am more productive thinking in Tailwind than thinking in raw css. YMMV of course, but some of us find Korean easier to learn than Chinese and at the end of the day we are both asking for a glass of water or where the restroom is - it’s just that for some of us one language is easier than another.

1shooner 6y ago

Criticism of Tailwind ranges from 'it's just inline css' to 'it's too easy, people will unlearn css'. I see Tailwind as a return to a simpler use of CSS. Comments on this thread talking about 'just write some cascading css' have perhaps not had to deal with the layers of css preprocessor abstraction that have developed. Tailwind is much closer to raw css than some of the SASS, LESS, and Compass mix-ins I have had to wrangle.