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> Companies prefer hiring employees who have families, and mortgages to service, and who faithfully trot along on the consumerism treadmill. As Nassim Taleb poi

> Companies prefer hiring employees who have families, and mortgages to service, and who faithfully trot along on the consumerism treadmill. As Nassim Taleb points out, it’s the only way you can legally ‘own’ a person today. I really hope Taleb doesn't say this because it's really really stupid. You can call a situation bad without comparing it to chattel slavery. As someone with family, I am curious about how others with families approach this "fuck-you" topic. I suppose it just doesn't include us, as we've made the choice to assume responsibilities that are (or should be) impossible to walk away from. If saying fuck you to a salary includes saying fuck you to my wife and kids, well I'm not going to do that. And believe it or not it doesn't make me feel like a literal slave to my employer. For single people (especially younger) it's great advice I think. You're unattached, that has its own benefits, why not make the most of it?

graton 6y ago
>> Companies prefer hiring employees who have families, and mortgages to service, and who faithfully trot along on the consumerism treadmill. As Nassim Taleb points out, it’s the only way you can legally ‘own’ a person today. > I really hope Taleb doesn't say this because it's really really stupid. You can call a situation bad without comparing it to chattel slavery. https://medium.com/incerto/how-to-legally-own-another-person-4145a1802bf6 https://medium.com/incerto/how-to-legally-own-another-person...
neogodless 6y ago
Whether talking about FIRE or just "f-you money", it means having enough money to amply take care of your responsibilities regardless of your situation, with enough of a runway to find another source of income. There may be situations (and professions) where burning one bridge burns all bridges and your only option after all that will be change your line of work, or take a huge pay cut. Ideally, you always make your choices about ongoing costs in a way that you aren't tying yourself to some high level of income and thus eliminating all sense of "f-you" options. During my six months of unemployment, my unemployment payments covered my required expenses, for most months - all responsibilities, same food as when I was employed. Due to the pandemic, we didn't spend as much on travel, and certain forms of entertainment, but we spent more on others. That's just because my life and my spending is designed that way. This is all a roundabout way of saying "avoid lifestyle inflation" which very commonly occurs where every raise is accompanied by spending more and more money. Getting a car to signal your raise. Moving into a more expensive house/neighborhood. We certainly spend money on things we enjoy, but in general there's a law of diminishing returns, and lots of spending fails to bring the joy we think it will. So yes, "f-you money" should be defined by you as having more than enough to say "no" to a bad situation, while still being able to comfortably care for your family, and to avoid imposing painful restrictions on their lives while you seek new income.
- sequoia 6y ago
  I lived somewhere less expensive (small town, out of the way) and in addition to being a big drag on income (9 of 10 jobs were a "no" from the start because they didn't hire remote) I ultimately didn't like the lifestyle. Now I live somewhere with a high cost of living (Toronto) because I'm near work, my kids can ride transit rather than driving (much safer for teens) and it means I'm not spending my time as a soccer-practice chauffeur, universities are nearby as well as good hospitals etc., lots of cultural stuff I like. But it's expensive. From the article "one or two years’ worth of living expenses" if your goal is financial independence, opting work for two years is insane, unless you can bring your expenses down to next-to-nothing as the author suggests. Having two years of expenses for a family of 6 is whole different ballgame than what this fellow is talking about, it's apples and oranges. As a single person I could get up and move somewhere cheaper, sleep in tent and eat out of the dumpster for that matter (I've done it before, I can do it again) but this is not something I can do with/to my family.
vaidhy 6y ago
I have been struggling with same topic and here is where I landed up at(specific to US). I have a pretty frugal lifestyle and after my kids go to college, I can live on much less that my current expenses. I have set a limit on how much I am willing to save for my kids. I want to have enough money for in-state college tuition for their undergrad. My kids go to a public school, and I spending more for living in a good school district, but that is cheaper than private schools and the time here is limited . My biggest fear is around the medical expenses as we grow older and my current thought process is that we will move out of US once the kids go to college. TLDR - I need to work for a limited period of time, but see the light at the end of the tunnel.
- sequoia 6y ago
  > My biggest fear is around the medical expenses as we grow older and my current thought process is that we will move out of US once the kids go to college. Believe me, I've done this math. :) On a completely unrelated note, check out the Canadian Express Entry system. I have lived in Toronto for a bit over three years now and I never worry about medical bankruptcy any more.

graton 6y ago

>> Companies prefer hiring employees who have families, and mortgages to service, and who faithfully trot along on the consumerism treadmill. As Nassim Taleb points out, it’s the only way you can legally ‘own’ a person today. > I really hope Taleb doesn't say this because it's really really stupid. You can call a situation bad without comparing it to chattel slavery. https://medium.com/incerto/how-to-legally-own-another-person-4145a1802bf6 https://medium.com/incerto/how-to-legally-own-another-person...

neogodless 6y ago

Whether talking about FIRE or just "f-you money", it means having enough money to amply take care of your responsibilities regardless of your situation, with enough of a runway to find another source of income. There may be situations (and professions) where burning one bridge burns all bridges and your only option after all that will be change your line of work, or take a huge pay cut. Ideally, you always make your choices about ongoing costs in a way that you aren't tying yourself to some high level of income and thus eliminating all sense of "f-you" options. During my six months of unemployment, my unemployment payments covered my required expenses, for most months - all responsibilities, same food as when I was employed. Due to the pandemic, we didn't spend as much on travel, and certain forms of entertainment, but we spent more on others. That's just because my life and my spending is designed that way. This is all a roundabout way of saying "avoid lifestyle inflation" which very commonly occurs where every raise is accompanied by spending more and more money. Getting a car to signal your raise. Moving into a more expensive house/neighborhood. We certainly spend money on things we enjoy, but in general there's a law of diminishing returns, and lots of spending fails to bring the joy we think it will. So yes, "f-you money" should be defined by you as having more than enough to say "no" to a bad situation, while still being able to comfortably care for your family, and to avoid imposing painful restrictions on their lives while you seek new income.

sequoia 6y ago
I lived somewhere less expensive (small town, out of the way) and in addition to being a big drag on income (9 of 10 jobs were a "no" from the start because they didn't hire remote) I ultimately didn't like the lifestyle. Now I live somewhere with a high cost of living (Toronto) because I'm near work, my kids can ride transit rather than driving (much safer for teens) and it means I'm not spending my time as a soccer-practice chauffeur, universities are nearby as well as good hospitals etc., lots of cultural stuff I like. But it's expensive. From the article "one or two years’ worth of living expenses" if your goal is financial independence, opting work for two years is insane, unless you can bring your expenses down to next-to-nothing as the author suggests. Having two years of expenses for a family of 6 is whole different ballgame than what this fellow is talking about, it's apples and oranges. As a single person I could get up and move somewhere cheaper, sleep in tent and eat out of the dumpster for that matter (I've done it before, I can do it again) but this is not something I can do with/to my family.

vaidhy 6y ago

I have been struggling with same topic and here is where I landed up at(specific to US). I have a pretty frugal lifestyle and after my kids go to college, I can live on much less that my current expenses. I have set a limit on how much I am willing to save for my kids. I want to have enough money for in-state college tuition for their undergrad. My kids go to a public school, and I spending more for living in a good school district, but that is cheaper than private schools and the time here is limited . My biggest fear is around the medical expenses as we grow older and my current thought process is that we will move out of US once the kids go to college. TLDR - I need to work for a limited period of time, but see the light at the end of the tunnel.

sequoia 6y ago
> My biggest fear is around the medical expenses as we grow older and my current thought process is that we will move out of US once the kids go to college. Believe me, I've done this math. :) On a completely unrelated note, check out the Canadian Express Entry system. I have lived in Toronto for a bit over three years now and I never worry about medical bankruptcy any more.