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All that happens with UBI is that prices meet demand and rise. Dollars are worth less. There is never going to be a situation where we just hit the printing p

All that happens with UBI is that prices meet demand and rise. Dollars are worth less. There is never going to be a situation where we just hit the printing press and everybody gets to live a leisurely good life. Living a good life really comes down to national production and logistics more than money distribution (the rich have piles of money but they dont typically consume in line with their wealth, like Jeff Bezos is not taking up 50 nurses or buying 100 single family homes or eating 100x his share of food). For example if I gave everyone 250k and told them to all go out and buy a ferrari, its actually impossible. There are not enough cars and prices would rise substantially to box out people again. The same principal goes for homes, healthcare, education, etc. The best way to increase standard of living is to increase production and efficiency to meet everyone's needs in all service and product categories.

Marazan 6y ago
Citation needed.
- ryandrake 6y ago
  Assume rent was your only expense, and your landlord currently charges you $1000/mo rent. He cannot charge you $1200/mo because you can't bear it. If he learns that you started getting $200/mo for free, he can easily raise your rent to $1200/mo. Now in the real world, we have multiple expenses, so prices rises will happen proportionally among them. The consumers with UBI can bear price increases, so the producers will soak it up.
  - bryanlarsen 6y ago
    Alternately, UBI allows you to quit your job, move to WV and pay $200 for rent. What constrains your landlord from jacking up rent is competition. If he jacks up rent by $200 but the landlord across the street has an empty apartment he'd be glad to rent out for $1000 he'll think twice about jacking your rent. The housing crisis in America is a supply issue. UBI has nothing to do with it. Inflation is primarily a monetary phenomenon. If they pay for UBI with deficit spending it might crank up inflation, but if it's fully funded it won't.
    - RyanGoosling 6y ago
      So being a current homeowner, do I have a financial interest in preventing new houses from being built? I remember, back around 2008, houses were popping up everywhere. You don't really see much of that anymore, at least in my experience. ALSO, lumber prices are HIGH and its not as profitable to build new houses, at the moment. But what if this is a larger lumber shortage/sustainability issue? What then? Could it be a mix of material supply issues and interest groups that are maintaining a housing shortage?
      - bryanlarsen 6y ago
        1 word: zoning
      - a1369209993 6y ago
        > So being a current homeowner, do I have a financial interest in preventing new houses from being built? Only if you're using your home as a financial instrument rather than a place to live. But that has the same problems as eg, farmers and/or grocers having a financial interest in engineering a famine in order to drive up food prices. > Could it be a mix of material supply issues and interest groups that are maintaining a housing shortage? Probably, yes, plus various other factors in varying amounts.
nickthemagicman 6y ago
This is inaccurate. Money has worth because of the value a region generates. If you have 10 units of currency and then 10 more are printed with no more value generated you have inflation. If you keep 10 units of currency but more value is generated you have deflation. If you just change who has the 10 units of currency that's not inflationary or deflationary, that's redistribution of the value. UBI is just giving workers back some of the value they have generated that has been capture by the owner class. It's funded not through 'printing press go brrr' (deficit spending) but through actual redistribution of that value more equitably.
- RhysU 6y ago
  Does no-brr-UBI that imply that a program would have to be fully funded each year by taxation of some sort?
  - nickthemagicman 6y ago
    Well to start it would eliminate MASSIVE amounts of gov't beuracracy. The entire disjointed and bloated gov't safety net apparatus of food stamps, WIC, Rental Subsidies, EITC, disability, unemployment, and more. would go away along with the bloated salaries of the people who run all of those programs. So massive amounts of tax money would be saved at the start. UBI is actually a small government conservatives dream. Then there's also the possibility that the jobs it creates from increased demand due to an economy with a much higher flow of money, could have a deflationary aspect which would allow the money printer to go brr a little bit. Then also, who know what kinds of new innovation would happen from smart people free to pursue their own goals without worrying about financial insecurity. Taxes would go up on the rich probably moderately. But it's doable and affordable and the country would be so much better off in my opinion.

Marazan 6y ago

Citation needed.

ryandrake 6y ago
Assume rent was your only expense, and your landlord currently charges you $1000/mo rent. He cannot charge you $1200/mo because you can't bear it. If he learns that you started getting $200/mo for free, he can easily raise your rent to $1200/mo. Now in the real world, we have multiple expenses, so prices rises will happen proportionally among them. The consumers with UBI can bear price increases, so the producers will soak it up.
- bryanlarsen 6y ago
  Alternately, UBI allows you to quit your job, move to WV and pay $200 for rent. What constrains your landlord from jacking up rent is competition. If he jacks up rent by $200 but the landlord across the street has an empty apartment he'd be glad to rent out for $1000 he'll think twice about jacking your rent. The housing crisis in America is a supply issue. UBI has nothing to do with it. Inflation is primarily a monetary phenomenon. If they pay for UBI with deficit spending it might crank up inflation, but if it's fully funded it won't.
  - RyanGoosling 6y ago
    So being a current homeowner, do I have a financial interest in preventing new houses from being built? I remember, back around 2008, houses were popping up everywhere. You don't really see much of that anymore, at least in my experience. ALSO, lumber prices are HIGH and its not as profitable to build new houses, at the moment. But what if this is a larger lumber shortage/sustainability issue? What then? Could it be a mix of material supply issues and interest groups that are maintaining a housing shortage?
    - bryanlarsen 6y ago
      1 word: zoning
    - a1369209993 6y ago
      > So being a current homeowner, do I have a financial interest in preventing new houses from being built? Only if you're using your home as a financial instrument rather than a place to live. But that has the same problems as eg, farmers and/or grocers having a financial interest in engineering a famine in order to drive up food prices. > Could it be a mix of material supply issues and interest groups that are maintaining a housing shortage? Probably, yes, plus various other factors in varying amounts.

nickthemagicman 6y ago

This is inaccurate. Money has worth because of the value a region generates. If you have 10 units of currency and then 10 more are printed with no more value generated you have inflation. If you keep 10 units of currency but more value is generated you have deflation. If you just change who has the 10 units of currency that's not inflationary or deflationary, that's redistribution of the value. UBI is just giving workers back some of the value they have generated that has been capture by the owner class. It's funded not through 'printing press go brrr' (deficit spending) but through actual redistribution of that value more equitably.

RhysU 6y ago
Does no-brr-UBI that imply that a program would have to be fully funded each year by taxation of some sort?
- nickthemagicman 6y ago
  Well to start it would eliminate MASSIVE amounts of gov't beuracracy. The entire disjointed and bloated gov't safety net apparatus of food stamps, WIC, Rental Subsidies, EITC, disability, unemployment, and more. would go away along with the bloated salaries of the people who run all of those programs. So massive amounts of tax money would be saved at the start. UBI is actually a small government conservatives dream. Then there's also the possibility that the jobs it creates from increased demand due to an economy with a much higher flow of money, could have a deflationary aspect which would allow the money printer to go brr a little bit. Then also, who know what kinds of new innovation would happen from smart people free to pursue their own goals without worrying about financial insecurity. Taxes would go up on the rich probably moderately. But it's doable and affordable and the country would be so much better off in my opinion.