3 ms·

(Edited.) That sounds sad. I have found (the easy way and the hard way) that God is just and merciful, and expects us to be kind & honest, and trust the final

by lcall 6y ago

(Edited.) That sounds sad. I have found (the easy way and the hard way) that God is just and merciful, and expects us to be kind & honest, and trust the final judgement to Him. I'm under the strong impression that our local and general leaders, or maybe about everyone else too, are aware of the things you talk about, that there is less deception than some might think, and really, the goal is to help, not condemn. Many things are structured with that help being available, if someone wants it. Even the online resources anyone can find, are extensive, and my own site links to many. Someone said, if you can't smell cigarette smoke at church meetings, we aren't doing our job. Some I know are open about their struggles (and/or opinions), and we can and should love them for the good that is in them. Being wrongly judgemental or harsh is a sin too, I suppose a common one, and we are to love the sinner and help them if we can (and they want).

yellowapple 6y ago
> Someone said, if you can't smell cigarette smoke at church meetings, we aren't doing our job. Seems like none of the wards of which I've been a member have been doing their jobs, then. > I'm under the strong impression that our local and general leaders, or maybe about everyone else too, are aware of the things you talk about, that there is less deception than some might think, and really, the goal is to help, not condemn. That's nice. It's the precise opposite of what most ex-Mormons seem to have experienced, however. It's certainly the precise opposite of what various homosexual and transgender members have experienced, being pressured to suppress fundamental aspects of who they are for the sake of conformity, in turn driving quite a few to suicide. We indeed can and should love all of our fellow God's children for the good that is in them. That does, however, entail accepting God's creations as they are, rather than insisting that they conform to some arbitrary standards set by scripture written and interpreted by the hands of those very same imperfect creations. To "help" someone deny one's own identity to oneself and to God is just as egregious of a sin as any other sort of harm one could inflict on another. If you do agree with that notion - that accepting who you are ain't a sin, and that coercing others to reject who they are is a sin - then you're in the wrong church, friend; I have a feeling you'll be following in my footsteps sooner rather than later. But that's a bit beside the topic, the point of which being that relatively few wards operate in the way you describe - and that the way said wards do operate makes Mormonism a potential avenue for exploitation.
- lcall 6y ago
  I think the bit about smoke was meant somewhat flippantly, to make a point and remind folks not to be wrongly judgemental. But as I noted elsewhere, being so is a sin and and I suppose church is for even the self-righteousness type of sinners, as we are all imperfect and should keep trying to be and do better. What a good way to help each other as we go through that process, regardless of what our individual needs may be along those lines. What we all really are (children of God) is an important question, as is what He thinks about us as individuals. I don't think I can put it better than this (and many related resources for anyone who wants): https://duckduckgo.com/?q=family+proclamation+site%3Achurchofjesuschrist.org&ia=web&iai=r1-0&page=1&sexp=%7B%22prodexp%22%3A%22b%22%2C%22prdsdexp%22%3A%22c%22%2C%22biaexp%22%3A%22b%22%2C%22msvrtexp%22%3A%22b%22%7D https://duckduckgo.com/?q=family+proclamation+site%3Achurcho... https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/search?lang=eng&query=gay%20transgender&highlight=true&page=1 https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/search?lang=eng&query=ga... It is also an important question whether the apostles really unitedly speak for God, and if the scriptures are true, if the Book of Mormon is what it says it is. I have determined, for myself, that the answer is (gratefully) yes, and written much more about that elsewhere. I also believe that anyone who wants can determine that for themselves, also; and we all will decide for ourselves. It is great to live where we can speak our views clearly, regardless of whether they all agree, or which side of a question we favor.
- lcall 6y ago
  > But that's a bit beside the topic, the point of which being that relatively few wards operate in the way you describe - and that the way said wards do operate makes Mormonism a potential avenue for exploitation. I suppose if one loves anything more than truth, goodness, and the other things that lead to long-term joy (extending far beyond this mortality), rather than to regrets, that (which I see as a) misprioritization will always be an avenue for exploitation. Life is, in part, a chance to gain experience and learn, and make choices, in many situations, some very hard. Temptation and a imperfect world and the need we all have, to school, train, and bridle our own thoughts, desires, and habits, toward good things, provide many of those hard situations.

by lcall 6y ago

yellowapple 6y ago

> Someone said, if you can't smell cigarette smoke at church meetings, we aren't doing our job. Seems like none of the wards of which I've been a member have been doing their jobs, then. > I'm under the strong impression that our local and general leaders, or maybe about everyone else too, are aware of the things you talk about, that there is less deception than some might think, and really, the goal is to help, not condemn. That's nice. It's the precise opposite of what most ex-Mormons seem to have experienced, however. It's certainly the precise opposite of what various homosexual and transgender members have experienced, being pressured to suppress fundamental aspects of who they are for the sake of conformity, in turn driving quite a few to suicide. We indeed can and should love all of our fellow God's children for the good that is in them. That does, however, entail accepting God's creations as they are, rather than insisting that they conform to some arbitrary standards set by scripture written and interpreted by the hands of those very same imperfect creations. To "help" someone deny one's own identity to oneself and to God is just as egregious of a sin as any other sort of harm one could inflict on another. If you do agree with that notion - that accepting who you are ain't a sin, and that coercing others to reject who they are is a sin - then you're in the wrong church, friend; I have a feeling you'll be following in my footsteps sooner rather than later. But that's a bit beside the topic, the point of which being that relatively few wards operate in the way you describe - and that the way said wards do operate makes Mormonism a potential avenue for exploitation.

lcall 6y ago
I think the bit about smoke was meant somewhat flippantly, to make a point and remind folks not to be wrongly judgemental. But as I noted elsewhere, being so is a sin and and I suppose church is for even the self-righteousness type of sinners, as we are all imperfect and should keep trying to be and do better. What a good way to help each other as we go through that process, regardless of what our individual needs may be along those lines. What we all really are (children of God) is an important question, as is what He thinks about us as individuals. I don't think I can put it better than this (and many related resources for anyone who wants): https://duckduckgo.com/?q=family+proclamation+site%3Achurchofjesuschrist.org&ia=web&iai=r1-0&page=1&sexp=%7B%22prodexp%22%3A%22b%22%2C%22prdsdexp%22%3A%22c%22%2C%22biaexp%22%3A%22b%22%2C%22msvrtexp%22%3A%22b%22%7D https://duckduckgo.com/?q=family+proclamation+site%3Achurcho... https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/search?lang=eng&query=gay%20transgender&highlight=true&page=1 https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/search?lang=eng&query=ga... It is also an important question whether the apostles really unitedly speak for God, and if the scriptures are true, if the Book of Mormon is what it says it is. I have determined, for myself, that the answer is (gratefully) yes, and written much more about that elsewhere. I also believe that anyone who wants can determine that for themselves, also; and we all will decide for ourselves. It is great to live where we can speak our views clearly, regardless of whether they all agree, or which side of a question we favor.
lcall 6y ago
> But that's a bit beside the topic, the point of which being that relatively few wards operate in the way you describe - and that the way said wards do operate makes Mormonism a potential avenue for exploitation. I suppose if one loves anything more than truth, goodness, and the other things that lead to long-term joy (extending far beyond this mortality), rather than to regrets, that (which I see as a) misprioritization will always be an avenue for exploitation. Life is, in part, a chance to gain experience and learn, and make choices, in many situations, some very hard. Temptation and a imperfect world and the need we all have, to school, train, and bridle our own thoughts, desires, and habits, toward good things, provide many of those hard situations.