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ps: the Handbook that desribes Church discipline is available online to all, and such discipline requires witnesses or confession (edit: or evidence, probably);

by lcall 6y ago

ps: the Handbook that desribes Church discipline is available online to all, and such discipline requires witnesses or confession (edit: or evidence, probably); so fabricated accusations, while probably painful, won't cause excommunication. There is also (to us) scripture that says Church discipline can only deprive one of membership, not of personal property or life, and that we should obey the law. Appeals are possible, and again, God knows everything anyway and things really can be OK. pps: I have lived in and visited a variety of places, and I read a lot. The Church is the best influence in my life, helping me and others I know, in some very hard times. A lot there.

yellowapple 6y ago
> such discipline requires witnesses or confession (edit: or evidence, probably) Witnesses are straightforward: blackmail multiple members, or get some plants who are "new to the ward". Might take awhile to build up a ward-wide infiltration network, but it's likely worth it. Hell, we're talking about the same demographic that routinely falls for MLM schemes like dōTerra. Once you get a bit of a nucleus, a ward's espionage machine can very well be self-maintaining and decentralized, using peer pressure and some judicious application of scripture to guilt-trip people into being informants. As for evidence: that's the whole discussion here :) > There is also (to us) scripture that says Church discipline can only deprive one of membership Which is all that's really needed to be effective leverage.
- lcall 6y ago
  The Book of Mormon says, IIRC 2 Ne 9: "Wo unto the liar, for he shall be thrust down to hell." This life isn't always fair, but we can trust Him to get it right in the end -- the important thing is that we are honest and never stop humbly trying to do what is right. I have learned we really can be OK. Edit: Which doesn't make it easy or less real -- but knowing it really helps me.

by lcall 6y ago

yellowapple 6y ago

> such discipline requires witnesses or confession (edit: or evidence, probably) Witnesses are straightforward: blackmail multiple members, or get some plants who are "new to the ward". Might take awhile to build up a ward-wide infiltration network, but it's likely worth it. Hell, we're talking about the same demographic that routinely falls for MLM schemes like dōTerra. Once you get a bit of a nucleus, a ward's espionage machine can very well be self-maintaining and decentralized, using peer pressure and some judicious application of scripture to guilt-trip people into being informants. As for evidence: that's the whole discussion here :) > There is also (to us) scripture that says Church discipline can only deprive one of membership Which is all that's really needed to be effective leverage.

lcall 6y ago
The Book of Mormon says, IIRC 2 Ne 9: "Wo unto the liar, for he shall be thrust down to hell." This life isn't always fair, but we can trust Him to get it right in the end -- the important thing is that we are honest and never stop humbly trying to do what is right. I have learned we really can be OK. Edit: Which doesn't make it easy or less real -- but knowing it really helps me.