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I don't think this kind of attitude should be encouraged. Imagine other professions celebrating things like that. Surgeon: Some of my patients request bladder

I don't think this kind of attitude should be encouraged. Imagine other professions celebrating things like that. Surgeon: Some of my patients request bladder surgeries while in reality their problems could be solved with a few simple diet supplements. But I just do the procedure and take the money. Just bought my 3rd Tesla, thanks to superfluous bladder operations! I know selling people shit they don't need is celebrated as an achievement nowadays, but feels like it shouldn't be.

bombcar 6y ago
Tons of work done in various industries is "shitwork" that the person doing the work wouldn't normally do except they're being paid to do it. At some point you give up arguing with the customer. The dieting is a perfect example - many health issues can be solved by losing weight but few people want to make the lifestyle changes necessary to do that.
- foobarbecue 6y ago
  Is your "shitwork" related to "bullshit jobs"? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bullshit_Jobs https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bullshit_Jobs
- BLKNSLVR 6y ago
  > few people want to make the lifestyle changes necessary to do that. I didn't have the will to make lifestyle changes until I had a serious bout of sciatica. I needed that external motivator of torturous pain to be able to commit to changing my eating and fitness habits. Two and a bit years later I'm down 12Kgs and slim and healthy (but, ironically, still have back pain issues that requires minor surgery to alleviate). "Don't worry, it's only for the rest of your life". If you can come to terms with that, you're ready to start.
  - ic0n0cl4st 6y ago
    Dude, sciatica was my catalyst for lifestyle change as well. I had a bicycle accident 14 years ago and damaged my piraformis. It was the most humbling and painful experience of my life.
jnwatson 6y ago
But that's exactly what surgeons and accountants and mechanics and consultants and entertainers do. Most work is unnecessary. Once you embrace that, it is a lot easier to understand how this economy works.
- kavalg 6y ago
  I can confirm this. I was offered surgery for my 2 year old for a problem that is not life threatening and could possibly (but rarely) cure itself. In the end it indeed cured itself.
rixrax 6y ago
Sounds exactly like the medical industrial complex in the US. Opioid crisis and general over medication and over treatment just magically happened / keeps happening. Surely no doctor ever thought let’s give the customer what they are asking.
jrochkind1 6y ago
Most people keep themselves from recognizing the problems with what they are doing if they are making lots of money off it, they convince themselves what they are doing is worthwhile after all. "It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends upon his not understanding it." I don't think (I hope?) anyone is celebrating "cheating the rubes". But I respect GP's ability to be honest about it -- it's super useful to the rest of us. For instance if we've been skeptical of k8, seeing someone who's an expert in it say that makes us think ok maybe we're on to something. Most people in that position would keep their mouths shut, and probably keep themselves from admitting to themselves what's up.
- asiachick 6y ago
  I've learned to not question what the customer wants. If I push back and think "you probably really want solution X over the solution Y you're asking for" more often than not it turns into a big fiasco. Every issue that comes up becomes my fault for suggesting X and not going with Y. Where as if I just do Y as they asked then they associate the issues with Y and not me.
  - jrochkind1 6y ago
    Sure, that's great for self-preservation. Can be done similarly with "what the boss [or uber-boss] wants". It leads to so much crap, but it's great for self-preservation.
jaywalk 6y ago
What do you think cosmetic plastic surgeons do?
ppf 6y ago
How many of the (mostly web-based) technologies that we all love to discuss on HN are any different?
ic0n0cl4st 6y ago
Nothing I do in this world is life or death. Hell, my customers neither, mostly they sell or support advertising in one fashion or another. Some founder I work for might make billions on products people don’t need, why shouldn’t I make $50k off of him? Isn’t that how capitism works?
- throwawayboise 6y ago
  I think so. If someone sees enough value in what you provide to be willing to pay you, you shouldn't feel bad about it. It's not like you're pushing them to adopt k8s. They already did that. It's like someone bought a Mercedes. Nobody needs a Mercedes, they could drive a Toyota. But now they need an oil change, and that's what you do, and they'll pay you for it.
MrPatan 6y ago
I'm not sure I need to engage my imagination very far. Why do you think that's not exactly what happens?
Zelphyr 6y ago
It already happens in medicine. Of course, a lot of it is "I'm afraid of getting sued so I'm going to cover my ass with all these tests." but, still. When I was younger I had a pain in my abdomen I had never experienced before. My grandmother told me to go to their family doctor who was probably older than they were. He pushed on some things and tapped on some things and finally diagnosed me. "It's gas. Go home and have a big fart." Sure enough, hours later, a big release and the pain was gone. These days I'd have been sent in for at least an MRI or CAT scan to go along with all the blood work that they would do. Now, I know what some of you are going to say. "But it COULD have been something way worse!" Sure, it could have been. But this guy had been a doctor for a long time by that point and knew from experience that it was gas. Just like when I recently had to rebuild a really old server and was getting errors that suggested missing class files but, after 25 years of doing this, I knew that it was actually missing a PHP module. Less is more and experience is golden.
- asiachick 6y ago
  There are plenty of stories of the opposite where the old doctor uses their intuition and it fails to a basic checklist. Instead of seeing temp 101, symptoms A+B+C = X they see (looks young and healthy, can't be X because X is only for old people). Turns out it is X I mean one of the most famous stores is of experienced doctor refusing to wash their hand because they know better based on their "years of experience"
dqpb 6y ago
His reason for why they don't need it was they are 'under the delusion of “hitting it big and needing to be able to scale 100x”.' To be fair, as a kubernetes consultant, he's probably not qualified to determine whether or not they will hit it big. What he probably is qualified for is to determine if they were to serve 100x their current load, would they be well served by kubernetes.
8note 6y ago
You are describing plastic surgery, no?

bombcar 6y ago

Tons of work done in various industries is "shitwork" that the person doing the work wouldn't normally do except they're being paid to do it. At some point you give up arguing with the customer. The dieting is a perfect example - many health issues can be solved by losing weight but few people want to make the lifestyle changes necessary to do that.

foobarbecue 6y ago
Is your "shitwork" related to "bullshit jobs"? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bullshit_Jobs https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bullshit_Jobs
BLKNSLVR 6y ago
> few people want to make the lifestyle changes necessary to do that. I didn't have the will to make lifestyle changes until I had a serious bout of sciatica. I needed that external motivator of torturous pain to be able to commit to changing my eating and fitness habits. Two and a bit years later I'm down 12Kgs and slim and healthy (but, ironically, still have back pain issues that requires minor surgery to alleviate). "Don't worry, it's only for the rest of your life". If you can come to terms with that, you're ready to start.
- ic0n0cl4st 6y ago
  Dude, sciatica was my catalyst for lifestyle change as well. I had a bicycle accident 14 years ago and damaged my piraformis. It was the most humbling and painful experience of my life.

jnwatson 6y ago

But that's exactly what surgeons and accountants and mechanics and consultants and entertainers do. Most work is unnecessary. Once you embrace that, it is a lot easier to understand how this economy works.

kavalg 6y ago
I can confirm this. I was offered surgery for my 2 year old for a problem that is not life threatening and could possibly (but rarely) cure itself. In the end it indeed cured itself.

rixrax 6y ago

Sounds exactly like the medical industrial complex in the US. Opioid crisis and general over medication and over treatment just magically happened / keeps happening. Surely no doctor ever thought let’s give the customer what they are asking.

jrochkind1 6y ago

Most people keep themselves from recognizing the problems with what they are doing if they are making lots of money off it, they convince themselves what they are doing is worthwhile after all. "It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends upon his not understanding it." I don't think (I hope?) anyone is celebrating "cheating the rubes". But I respect GP's ability to be honest about it -- it's super useful to the rest of us. For instance if we've been skeptical of k8, seeing someone who's an expert in it say that makes us think ok maybe we're on to something. Most people in that position would keep their mouths shut, and probably keep themselves from admitting to themselves what's up.

asiachick 6y ago
I've learned to not question what the customer wants. If I push back and think "you probably really want solution X over the solution Y you're asking for" more often than not it turns into a big fiasco. Every issue that comes up becomes my fault for suggesting X and not going with Y. Where as if I just do Y as they asked then they associate the issues with Y and not me.
- jrochkind1 6y ago
  Sure, that's great for self-preservation. Can be done similarly with "what the boss [or uber-boss] wants". It leads to so much crap, but it's great for self-preservation.

jaywalk 6y ago

What do you think cosmetic plastic surgeons do?

ppf 6y ago

How many of the (mostly web-based) technologies that we all love to discuss on HN are any different?

ic0n0cl4st 6y ago

Nothing I do in this world is life or death. Hell, my customers neither, mostly they sell or support advertising in one fashion or another. Some founder I work for might make billions on products people don’t need, why shouldn’t I make $50k off of him? Isn’t that how capitism works?

throwawayboise 6y ago
I think so. If someone sees enough value in what you provide to be willing to pay you, you shouldn't feel bad about it. It's not like you're pushing them to adopt k8s. They already did that. It's like someone bought a Mercedes. Nobody needs a Mercedes, they could drive a Toyota. But now they need an oil change, and that's what you do, and they'll pay you for it.

MrPatan 6y ago

I'm not sure I need to engage my imagination very far. Why do you think that's not exactly what happens?

Zelphyr 6y ago

It already happens in medicine. Of course, a lot of it is "I'm afraid of getting sued so I'm going to cover my ass with all these tests." but, still. When I was younger I had a pain in my abdomen I had never experienced before. My grandmother told me to go to their family doctor who was probably older than they were. He pushed on some things and tapped on some things and finally diagnosed me. "It's gas. Go home and have a big fart." Sure enough, hours later, a big release and the pain was gone. These days I'd have been sent in for at least an MRI or CAT scan to go along with all the blood work that they would do. Now, I know what some of you are going to say. "But it COULD have been something way worse!" Sure, it could have been. But this guy had been a doctor for a long time by that point and knew from experience that it was gas. Just like when I recently had to rebuild a really old server and was getting errors that suggested missing class files but, after 25 years of doing this, I knew that it was actually missing a PHP module. Less is more and experience is golden.

asiachick 6y ago
There are plenty of stories of the opposite where the old doctor uses their intuition and it fails to a basic checklist. Instead of seeing temp 101, symptoms A+B+C = X they see (looks young and healthy, can't be X because X is only for old people). Turns out it is X I mean one of the most famous stores is of experienced doctor refusing to wash their hand because they know better based on their "years of experience"

dqpb 6y ago

His reason for why they don't need it was they are 'under the delusion of “hitting it big and needing to be able to scale 100x”.' To be fair, as a kubernetes consultant, he's probably not qualified to determine whether or not they will hit it big. What he probably is qualified for is to determine if they were to serve 100x their current load, would they be well served by kubernetes.

8note 6y ago

You are describing plastic surgery, no?