4 ms·

Does anyone else approach these "teen invents x" or "wiz kid middle schooler discovers y" articles with extreme skepticism? About half the time the invention tu

by bb123 6y ago

Does anyone else approach these "teen invents x" or "wiz kid middle schooler discovers y" articles with extreme skepticism? About half the time the invention turns out to be bogus or trivial, and in the other half it comes to light the parents were behind it.

konjin 6y ago
Yes, but then again the majority of news is somewhere between lies and not even wrong. The point of news is eyeballs, not truth.
- konschubert 6y ago
  No, there exist reasonably good news sources.
  - konjin 6y ago
    Yes, a tiny minority. The majority are so bad that they have reduced their consumers ability to read to the point where they can't understand the difference between few and none.
konschubert 6y ago
Immediate red flag.
- patrickaljord 6y ago
  The most annoying part is that it usually comes with a patronizing "the youth knows better than the rest of us old fart sinners" message. I'm all for empowering the youth and don't deny their potential to build and create amazing things but these clickbaity articles ain't it.
vmception 6y ago
So there I was, kayaking in an oil spill
noobermin 6y ago
This sort of comment crops up every time an article like this comes on HN. No doubt often times parents bring their kids along for the ride but no one bats and eye when we talk about our youth and learning to program as a 14 year old or something, why be surprised an 18 year old has come up with such an idea based on basic chemistry?
- konschubert 6y ago
  I think the red flag is in the combination of "teen" and "<feel-good-subject>". It's just a very typical clickbait pattern. "Teen builds online brokerage platform" or "Teen builds bike that goes 100mph" does not cause the same negative anticipation.
- xxs 6y ago
  >when we talk about our youth and learning to program as a 14 year old or something what 14? That's late indeed. The story has to be preschool to be awe-worthy. For instance: "12/13y old writes the shortest assembly routine to move the head of the floppy drive of Apple II", doesn't sound grounbreaking - even if the code was better/shorter than DOS, itself. Solving massive world problems is a totally different scale.
- bb123 6y ago
  Because the issues kids in these articles claim to solve are usually large unsolved problems, that have been studied by subject matter experts for years. It's possible someone could dream up a silver bullet, but I believe the trope of an untrained outsider approaching a problem and easily solving something that has stumped "the experts" is nowhere near as common as we'd like to believe. The reality is these solutions take years of persistent hard work and background knowledge, and rarely materialise all at once. But that doesn't make a feel-good headline.
  - noobermin 6y ago
    That's fine for the typical case, it's not like "teens with fresh ideas" solve all the problems, that's why this is news worthy because it is an exception. I'm not sure this story (the article in question seems like a blog of some sort so their writing might not be the best) is trying to pass off the idea that it's common at all.
nabla9 6y ago
Even if it's not a bogus, they are rarely practical. Just like when adult hobbyists invent these things and they work, the engineering constraints of cost and scalability or negative side effects usually kill the project. In this example, how much vegetable oils and magnetite powder you need per cubic meter of water?
- Ekaros 6y ago
  Also how big magnets are we talking about here? And what scale of flow they can operate at with sufficient efficiency? Also what if there is lot of surfactants(soap etc.) involved in water?
runawaybottle 6y ago
This might be a stretch, but it always reminds me of Craig Ferguson’s rant on ‘The deification of youth’: https://youtu.be/UKUZ42T9diU https://youtu.be/UKUZ42T9diU Edit: (*Scottish!): Ironically, he’s an old Irish man :p
- glckr 6y ago
  Craig Ferguson is not Irish.
  - runawaybottle 6y ago
    Oh man, I thought they were all the same up there.
- dbspin 6y ago
  Scottish.
NotPavlovsDog 6y ago
Yes. My partner is working on a sub-topic, removing microplastics from laundry discharge water, and it is a huge and still undefined challenge. There is no magic pill. Even core definitions such as "what are microplastics" are under review and development. And then there's nanoplastics. For those wanting an introduction to the topic, don't go with media, start reviewing papers. The top cited papers clearly outline how all-encompassing and complex the challenge is.
- MertsA 6y ago
  >removing microplastics from laundry discharge water Much better way of addressing a lot of the microplastics problem IMHO. Regulate it out of common frivolous sources like e.g. "exfoliating microspheres" and then start requiring washing machine OEMs to put replaceable filters on the discharge.
  - NotPavlovsDog 6y ago
    Agree on both counts. It's really inspiring to see what real engineering is. Makes me feel like a sell-out massaging Skinner boxes. In the laundry problem they are dealing with both the extreme challenge of physical objects (connecting the right pump to the right controller, battling liquid pressure loss, unreliable reference washing machine performance and water quality ), abstract concepts ("what shall be identified as microplastics?" "is the reference wash cycle in any way relevant to how plastic clothing sheds when worn by humans?" "how shall the conflicting measurement methods from literature be addressed / unified?") and project constraints. To say nothing about filter clogging. And it's a great feeling to know that your work is fundamentally relevant, i see that even when they hit their lows. Really making me re-consider my career path.
  - kwhitefoot 6y ago
    > Regulate it out of common frivolous sources like e.g. "exfoliating microspheres" Already done in the UK and US. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/beauty/skin/the-best-face-and-body-scrubs-without-plastic-microbeads/ https://www.telegraph.co.uk/beauty/skin/the-best-face-and-bo... See also https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/reel.12269 https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/reel.12269 https://www.fda.gov/cosmetics/cosmetics-laws-regulations/microbead-free-waters-act-faqs https://www.fda.gov/cosmetics/cosmetics-laws-regulations/mic...
hyko 6y ago
Yes. They tend to be straight out of the “monkey lands plane” school of journalism.
- HenryBemis 6y ago
  Hahaha "monkey lands plane" reminded me of the ad with the monkey being the taxi driver: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sdXbf12AzIM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sdXbf12AzIM (not affilated with pepsi, I do not consume sugar-y soft drinks)
cromulent 6y ago
I used to, but after seeing the Collison brothers achievements I will click on any headline starting with "Irish Teen Invents...".
bluesign 6y ago
It usually is. You can usually find some research or news about same tech used. from 2013 article [1], though it seems not practical [2]: "W2Plastics has shown the viability of magnetic density separation, where flakes of shredded plastic such as polyethylene or polypropylene are mixed into a magnetic fluid made by adding iron oxide to water." I am not sure which one is better to show kids they discovered something existing, or praise them like this [1] https://horizon-magazine.eu/article/magnetic-attraction-recycling-plastics.html https://horizon-magazine.eu/article/magnetic-attraction-recy... [2] https://cordis.europa.eu/article/id/131208-sorting-plastic-waste-a-magnetic-game/fr https://cordis.europa.eu/article/id/131208-sorting-plastic-w...
ekianjo 6y ago
Almost as reliable as "scientist discovers X" in mainstream media since they constantly misinterpret or exagerate the nature of discoveries.
globular-toast 6y ago
I approach everything with scepticism.
airhead969 6y ago
"Hey, look everyone, a toddler invented commercial fusion power when actual physicists and engineers couldn't!" It sells ads to eyeballs is all the so-called journalists and editors care about.

by bb123 6y ago

konjin 6y ago

Yes, but then again the majority of news is somewhere between lies and not even wrong. The point of news is eyeballs, not truth.

konschubert 6y ago
No, there exist reasonably good news sources.
- konjin 6y ago
  Yes, a tiny minority. The majority are so bad that they have reduced their consumers ability to read to the point where they can't understand the difference between few and none.

konschubert 6y ago

Immediate red flag.

patrickaljord 6y ago
The most annoying part is that it usually comes with a patronizing "the youth knows better than the rest of us old fart sinners" message. I'm all for empowering the youth and don't deny their potential to build and create amazing things but these clickbaity articles ain't it.

vmception 6y ago

So there I was, kayaking in an oil spill

noobermin 6y ago

This sort of comment crops up every time an article like this comes on HN. No doubt often times parents bring their kids along for the ride but no one bats and eye when we talk about our youth and learning to program as a 14 year old or something, why be surprised an 18 year old has come up with such an idea based on basic chemistry?

konschubert 6y ago
I think the red flag is in the combination of "teen" and "<feel-good-subject>". It's just a very typical clickbait pattern. "Teen builds online brokerage platform" or "Teen builds bike that goes 100mph" does not cause the same negative anticipation.
xxs 6y ago
>when we talk about our youth and learning to program as a 14 year old or something what 14? That's late indeed. The story has to be preschool to be awe-worthy. For instance: "12/13y old writes the shortest assembly routine to move the head of the floppy drive of Apple II", doesn't sound grounbreaking - even if the code was better/shorter than DOS, itself. Solving massive world problems is a totally different scale.
bb123 6y ago
Because the issues kids in these articles claim to solve are usually large unsolved problems, that have been studied by subject matter experts for years. It's possible someone could dream up a silver bullet, but I believe the trope of an untrained outsider approaching a problem and easily solving something that has stumped "the experts" is nowhere near as common as we'd like to believe. The reality is these solutions take years of persistent hard work and background knowledge, and rarely materialise all at once. But that doesn't make a feel-good headline.
- noobermin 6y ago
  That's fine for the typical case, it's not like "teens with fresh ideas" solve all the problems, that's why this is news worthy because it is an exception. I'm not sure this story (the article in question seems like a blog of some sort so their writing might not be the best) is trying to pass off the idea that it's common at all.

nabla9 6y ago

Even if it's not a bogus, they are rarely practical. Just like when adult hobbyists invent these things and they work, the engineering constraints of cost and scalability or negative side effects usually kill the project. In this example, how much vegetable oils and magnetite powder you need per cubic meter of water?

Ekaros 6y ago
Also how big magnets are we talking about here? And what scale of flow they can operate at with sufficient efficiency? Also what if there is lot of surfactants(soap etc.) involved in water?

runawaybottle 6y ago

This might be a stretch, but it always reminds me of Craig Ferguson’s rant on ‘The deification of youth’: https://youtu.be/UKUZ42T9diU https://youtu.be/UKUZ42T9diU Edit: (*Scottish!): Ironically, he’s an old Irish man :p

glckr 6y ago
Craig Ferguson is not Irish.
- runawaybottle 6y ago
  Oh man, I thought they were all the same up there.
dbspin 6y ago
Scottish.

NotPavlovsDog 6y ago

Yes. My partner is working on a sub-topic, removing microplastics from laundry discharge water, and it is a huge and still undefined challenge. There is no magic pill. Even core definitions such as "what are microplastics" are under review and development. And then there's nanoplastics. For those wanting an introduction to the topic, don't go with media, start reviewing papers. The top cited papers clearly outline how all-encompassing and complex the challenge is.

MertsA 6y ago
>removing microplastics from laundry discharge water Much better way of addressing a lot of the microplastics problem IMHO. Regulate it out of common frivolous sources like e.g. "exfoliating microspheres" and then start requiring washing machine OEMs to put replaceable filters on the discharge.
- NotPavlovsDog 6y ago
  Agree on both counts. It's really inspiring to see what real engineering is. Makes me feel like a sell-out massaging Skinner boxes. In the laundry problem they are dealing with both the extreme challenge of physical objects (connecting the right pump to the right controller, battling liquid pressure loss, unreliable reference washing machine performance and water quality ), abstract concepts ("what shall be identified as microplastics?" "is the reference wash cycle in any way relevant to how plastic clothing sheds when worn by humans?" "how shall the conflicting measurement methods from literature be addressed / unified?") and project constraints. To say nothing about filter clogging. And it's a great feeling to know that your work is fundamentally relevant, i see that even when they hit their lows. Really making me re-consider my career path.
- kwhitefoot 6y ago
  > Regulate it out of common frivolous sources like e.g. "exfoliating microspheres" Already done in the UK and US. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/beauty/skin/the-best-face-and-body-scrubs-without-plastic-microbeads/ https://www.telegraph.co.uk/beauty/skin/the-best-face-and-bo... See also https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/reel.12269 https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/reel.12269 https://www.fda.gov/cosmetics/cosmetics-laws-regulations/microbead-free-waters-act-faqs https://www.fda.gov/cosmetics/cosmetics-laws-regulations/mic...

hyko 6y ago

Yes. They tend to be straight out of the “monkey lands plane” school of journalism.

HenryBemis 6y ago
Hahaha "monkey lands plane" reminded me of the ad with the monkey being the taxi driver: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sdXbf12AzIM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sdXbf12AzIM (not affilated with pepsi, I do not consume sugar-y soft drinks)

cromulent 6y ago

I used to, but after seeing the Collison brothers achievements I will click on any headline starting with "Irish Teen Invents...".

bluesign 6y ago

It usually is. You can usually find some research or news about same tech used. from 2013 article [1], though it seems not practical [2]: "W2Plastics has shown the viability of magnetic density separation, where flakes of shredded plastic such as polyethylene or polypropylene are mixed into a magnetic fluid made by adding iron oxide to water." I am not sure which one is better to show kids they discovered something existing, or praise them like this [1] https://horizon-magazine.eu/article/magnetic-attraction-recycling-plastics.html https://horizon-magazine.eu/article/magnetic-attraction-recy... [2] https://cordis.europa.eu/article/id/131208-sorting-plastic-waste-a-magnetic-game/fr https://cordis.europa.eu/article/id/131208-sorting-plastic-w...

ekianjo 6y ago

Almost as reliable as "scientist discovers X" in mainstream media since they constantly misinterpret or exagerate the nature of discoveries.

globular-toast 6y ago

I approach everything with scepticism.

airhead969 6y ago

"Hey, look everyone, a toddler invented commercial fusion power when actual physicists and engineers couldn't!" It sells ads to eyeballs is all the so-called journalists and editors care about.