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Germany had 46% renewables and 10% gas for electricity production in 2019. The United States have 40% of electricity production from gas. Renewables have noth

Germany had 46% renewables and 10% gas for electricity production in 2019. The United States have 40% of electricity production from gas. Renewables have nothing to do with the high use of gas in the US. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electricity_sector_in_Germany https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electricity_sector_in_Germany https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electricity_sector_of_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electricity_sector_of_the_Unit...

fuoqi 6y ago
Don't forget that Germany is part of the same grid or have HVDC links with other European countries such as France (70% nuclear power), Norway (near 100% hydro, not only generation but also storage), and Poland (72% coal), so you you should not take Germany in isolation in such discussions.
- lispm 6y ago
  The majority of electricity is not imported. Germany is a net exporter of electricity.
  - fuoqi 6y ago
    The point is: they can rely on their neighbors as a kind of safety net for times when renewables output is not sufficient. And the Norway hydro-storage potential also plays a huge role here, it allows Germany to have less domestic storage and gas peak plants, thus preventing the electricity cost from soaring even higher (which is already the highest in the EU).
    - lispm 6y ago
      Right, that's also the plan. There is also a grid in the North Sea which will be extended, to exchange electricity from the offshore wind production. There will be more lines to Norway. Germany will have their own storage systems in the North, etc.
Aachen 6y ago
That's great but there's 84% to go after you have 100% renewable electricity production. At 50% green electricity, that means 92% of energy consumption was generated from fossil fuels on demand. We (I live in Germany) have more than 92% of the road ahead of us, since we will need to expend more and more effort to find suitable places for all this energy production and storage. There is no storage to speak of at the moment, which makes sense because Germany isn't even getting close to having a significant portion of its energy generated without emitting carbon. If we could take a shortcut and generate some 10% with a small amount of land use and variability, that would be a huge win. Cost and the time needed to build are downsides, but from my perspective unavoidable. This will not happen in the next ~2-3 generations (say, a century) because of the ridiculous amount of misinformation about safety being spread in Germany, but other countries don't have that issue so there's still hope to cut corners elsewhere. At best, this is a stop-gap solution, I really don't care if people want to phase out nuclear fission. But then let's do that after we approach 90% renewable energy, not when we approach 90% fossil fuels as Germany currently is doing. We have bigger problems and can't afford to be so picky.
- est31 6y ago
  > We (I live in Germany) have more than 92% of the road ahead of us FTR in 2020, 15% of Germany's primary energy needs came from renewables: https://www.umweltbundesamt.de/sites/default/files/medien/384/bilder/3_abb_pev-energietraeger_2020-11-24.png https://www.umweltbundesamt.de/sites/default/files/medien/38... So it's only 85% of the road ahead of us :). As for missing space, you do have a point. At some point domestic renewable capacities will be exhausted. However, right now Germany imports most of its energy in various forms. Likely we'll keep importing it in the future, just that it will be generated renewably. Changing to renewables AND becoming fully self sufficient would demand too much I think. Not that there are any uranium mines in Germany either.
  - Aachen 6y ago
    I got my stats from Wikipedia (article: Energy in Germany), looks like that's outdated then! Nice to hear :)
pretendscholar 6y ago
Really burying the lede by not mentioning the 15 percent lignite production. That produces about 3 to 4 times the undesirable pollution than natural gas.

fuoqi 6y ago

Don't forget that Germany is part of the same grid or have HVDC links with other European countries such as France (70% nuclear power), Norway (near 100% hydro, not only generation but also storage), and Poland (72% coal), so you you should not take Germany in isolation in such discussions.

lispm 6y ago
The majority of electricity is not imported. Germany is a net exporter of electricity.
- fuoqi 6y ago
  The point is: they can rely on their neighbors as a kind of safety net for times when renewables output is not sufficient. And the Norway hydro-storage potential also plays a huge role here, it allows Germany to have less domestic storage and gas peak plants, thus preventing the electricity cost from soaring even higher (which is already the highest in the EU).
  - lispm 6y ago
    Right, that's also the plan. There is also a grid in the North Sea which will be extended, to exchange electricity from the offshore wind production. There will be more lines to Norway. Germany will have their own storage systems in the North, etc.

Aachen 6y ago

That's great but there's 84% to go after you have 100% renewable electricity production. At 50% green electricity, that means 92% of energy consumption was generated from fossil fuels on demand. We (I live in Germany) have more than 92% of the road ahead of us, since we will need to expend more and more effort to find suitable places for all this energy production and storage. There is no storage to speak of at the moment, which makes sense because Germany isn't even getting close to having a significant portion of its energy generated without emitting carbon. If we could take a shortcut and generate some 10% with a small amount of land use and variability, that would be a huge win. Cost and the time needed to build are downsides, but from my perspective unavoidable. This will not happen in the next ~2-3 generations (say, a century) because of the ridiculous amount of misinformation about safety being spread in Germany, but other countries don't have that issue so there's still hope to cut corners elsewhere. At best, this is a stop-gap solution, I really don't care if people want to phase out nuclear fission. But then let's do that after we approach 90% renewable energy, not when we approach 90% fossil fuels as Germany currently is doing. We have bigger problems and can't afford to be so picky.

est31 6y ago
> We (I live in Germany) have more than 92% of the road ahead of us FTR in 2020, 15% of Germany's primary energy needs came from renewables: https://www.umweltbundesamt.de/sites/default/files/medien/384/bilder/3_abb_pev-energietraeger_2020-11-24.png https://www.umweltbundesamt.de/sites/default/files/medien/38... So it's only 85% of the road ahead of us :). As for missing space, you do have a point. At some point domestic renewable capacities will be exhausted. However, right now Germany imports most of its energy in various forms. Likely we'll keep importing it in the future, just that it will be generated renewably. Changing to renewables AND becoming fully self sufficient would demand too much I think. Not that there are any uranium mines in Germany either.
- Aachen 6y ago
  I got my stats from Wikipedia (article: Energy in Germany), looks like that's outdated then! Nice to hear :)

pretendscholar 6y ago

Really burying the lede by not mentioning the 15 percent lignite production. That produces about 3 to 4 times the undesirable pollution than natural gas.