4 ms·

I can relate to this, I was recently looking to get a couple of domains for some ideas I wanted to pursue, but every name idea I came up with - at least the one

I can relate to this, I was recently looking to get a couple of domains for some ideas I wanted to pursue, but every name idea I came up with - at least the ones I really wanted - were taken and had a "this domain is for sale" or similar message on them. On multiple tlds. I ended up just searching for available domains that kind of matched what I wanted to convey to use a product name. It is frustrating, but I don't think there is really an answer. - Limit the number of domains per person/business to say, 10, unless you can show that you are actively using them? - Have a 'use it or lose it' type system? Those are not great ideas, and practically are not really enforceable anyway. I dunno, it's annoying but I guess it's up there with ticket scalpers etc

thomasahle 6y ago
> - Have a 'use it or lose it' type system? > Those are not great ideas, and practically are not really enforceable anyway. This is how the .dk and probably many other top level domains are handled. There is a special "domain court" which you ask for a ruling in case a domain seems to be unused and you have a better claim for it.
- mrweasel 6y ago
  That has been problematic, if I recall correctly. I believe that was the reason Cybercity, an ISP, was asked to hand over large number of domains. Others claimed that Cybercity wasn't using those domains, because there where no websites. The domains had been registered solely to be used as domains for their customers email account, so their where in use. I think the dropped the domains when their stopped providing customers with email accounts. Depending on the court, I can see a large number of cases where someone is forced to hand over a domain, because they aren't using it for a website.
  - lentil_soup 6y ago
    then the problem is the court not understanding the technology. If you are using the domain just for email then sure, that's a valid use case and you can claim the domain is being used
    - carmen_sandiego 6y ago
      But then you'll just see domainers setting up sham inboxes on all their domains, don't you think?
      - thomasahle 6y ago
        I don't think so. It hasn't happened in Denmark at least. Besides, just having a "domain squatting is illegal" rule would mean domain resale websites won't be possible as they will be a clear sign of bad intend. It may not remove all the squatting, but if you can't easily set up a resale shop, it'll be a lot less economically attractive.
        carmen_sandiego 6y ago
        Well, if a court rules that having an email set up on the domain is valid, how would you know whether that given case was legit or not? Who can really speak to the motivations of doing it? I think .dk and .com probably diverge in this case because (a) a top .com is literally a million-dollar lottery ticket of incentive, and (b) .com is so much bigger that it would probably allow for utility services that set up trivial email services for a minimal fee, across your whole portfolio of domains. I'm not sure .dk can sustain the same kind of domainer industry tooling. Plus, there's the problem of jurisdiction. For .dk it's pretty clear: cases are heard and decided in Denmark. And, since it's mostly Danish entities using .dk, that doesn't cause much unfairness. If .com is arbitrated in the US, seems like US corps are likely to take advantage of that and cause a lot of problems for smaller entities around the world. I wish the .dk solution could be applied to .com. I hate how .com is right now. But I'm not sure it works at global scale.
criddell 6y ago
The domains you wanted were for sale. Did you make any offers?
- bennyp101 6y ago
  I did not, firstly because I have no way to verify that the email I'm contacting is not some sort of scam to get my info, and secondly I don't have time to sit and have a back and forth email conversation to maybe potentially buy the domain for more than the current value. (Yes, value depends on what someone is willing to pay etc) Whilst it was frustrating they were not available, it wasn't the end of the world to me.
  - jobigoud 6y ago
    The people owning these domains most probably have them listed on a domain market place so you might not have to deal with the person directly and if it's listed as instant buy there is no bargaining or whatnot. You just buy it and the platform handles the transfer of ownership.
tzs 6y ago
What counts as using it? I've had a 3 letter .net domain for 23 years, and in all that time there has never been more than a small website on it with a handful of extremely low traffic pages that no one would care about [1]. From a web point of view, it appears to be an almost dead domain, something that I played with a bit at the end of the last century and have largely ignored since then. But domains are also used for email, and my primary email has been on that domain for all that time. There are several hundred companies that have that email address on file as a contact address and/or as an account identifier, and all my friends and acquaintances use it to correspond with me. How would I prove I was using it if someone tried to get it transferred to them on grounds of non-use? To prove significant use of it for email seems hard to do without having to share a lot of personal and private information. [1] Oddly, there is one page on it that for most of that time was the #1 hit on Google if you searched for the thing that page is about, although recently it has slipped a few spots, and is still #1 on Bing and DDG and Yahoo. The page is just plain text with some tables and some bolded headings, has never been publicized, has no SEO, and according to Google only has one outside site linking to it (in a comment I made seven years ago in a forum), and there are numerous other pages out there that cover the same thing I did and usually better. I am completely baffled as to why mine ranks so high.

thomasahle 6y ago

> - Have a 'use it or lose it' type system? > Those are not great ideas, and practically are not really enforceable anyway. This is how the .dk and probably many other top level domains are handled. There is a special "domain court" which you ask for a ruling in case a domain seems to be unused and you have a better claim for it.

mrweasel 6y ago
That has been problematic, if I recall correctly. I believe that was the reason Cybercity, an ISP, was asked to hand over large number of domains. Others claimed that Cybercity wasn't using those domains, because there where no websites. The domains had been registered solely to be used as domains for their customers email account, so their where in use. I think the dropped the domains when their stopped providing customers with email accounts. Depending on the court, I can see a large number of cases where someone is forced to hand over a domain, because they aren't using it for a website.
- lentil_soup 6y ago
  then the problem is the court not understanding the technology. If you are using the domain just for email then sure, that's a valid use case and you can claim the domain is being used
  - carmen_sandiego 6y ago
    But then you'll just see domainers setting up sham inboxes on all their domains, don't you think?
    - thomasahle 6y ago
      I don't think so. It hasn't happened in Denmark at least. Besides, just having a "domain squatting is illegal" rule would mean domain resale websites won't be possible as they will be a clear sign of bad intend. It may not remove all the squatting, but if you can't easily set up a resale shop, it'll be a lot less economically attractive.
      - carmen_sandiego 6y ago
        Well, if a court rules that having an email set up on the domain is valid, how would you know whether that given case was legit or not? Who can really speak to the motivations of doing it? I think .dk and .com probably diverge in this case because (a) a top .com is literally a million-dollar lottery ticket of incentive, and (b) .com is so much bigger that it would probably allow for utility services that set up trivial email services for a minimal fee, across your whole portfolio of domains. I'm not sure .dk can sustain the same kind of domainer industry tooling. Plus, there's the problem of jurisdiction. For .dk it's pretty clear: cases are heard and decided in Denmark. And, since it's mostly Danish entities using .dk, that doesn't cause much unfairness. If .com is arbitrated in the US, seems like US corps are likely to take advantage of that and cause a lot of problems for smaller entities around the world. I wish the .dk solution could be applied to .com. I hate how .com is right now. But I'm not sure it works at global scale.

criddell 6y ago

The domains you wanted were for sale. Did you make any offers?

bennyp101 6y ago
I did not, firstly because I have no way to verify that the email I'm contacting is not some sort of scam to get my info, and secondly I don't have time to sit and have a back and forth email conversation to maybe potentially buy the domain for more than the current value. (Yes, value depends on what someone is willing to pay etc) Whilst it was frustrating they were not available, it wasn't the end of the world to me.
- jobigoud 6y ago
  The people owning these domains most probably have them listed on a domain market place so you might not have to deal with the person directly and if it's listed as instant buy there is no bargaining or whatnot. You just buy it and the platform handles the transfer of ownership.

tzs 6y ago

What counts as using it? I've had a 3 letter .net domain for 23 years, and in all that time there has never been more than a small website on it with a handful of extremely low traffic pages that no one would care about [1]. From a web point of view, it appears to be an almost dead domain, something that I played with a bit at the end of the last century and have largely ignored since then. But domains are also used for email, and my primary email has been on that domain for all that time. There are several hundred companies that have that email address on file as a contact address and/or as an account identifier, and all my friends and acquaintances use it to correspond with me. How would I prove I was using it if someone tried to get it transferred to them on grounds of non-use? To prove significant use of it for email seems hard to do without having to share a lot of personal and private information. [1] Oddly, there is one page on it that for most of that time was the #1 hit on Google if you searched for the thing that page is about, although recently it has slipped a few spots, and is still #1 on Bing and DDG and Yahoo. The page is just plain text with some tables and some bolded headings, has never been publicized, has no SEO, and according to Google only has one outside site linking to it (in a comment I made seven years ago in a forum), and there are numerous other pages out there that cover the same thing I did and usually better. I am completely baffled as to why mine ranks so high.