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Having at one point been Mormon myself... The things that make Mormons great FBI agents also can be a double-edged sword. The stronger the devotion to the Chu

Having at one point been Mormon myself... The things that make Mormons great FBI agents also can be a double-edged sword. The stronger the devotion to the Church, the greater leverage for blackmail; anything that could preclude one from a temple recommend (or, even more severely, result in excommunication) can be used against a follower - be the naughty deeds actual or fabricated. This is less effective against higher-ranking members in the church (bishops, let alone their superiors up to the Quorum and the President, are well-positioned to be able to brush scandals under the rug), but could be absolutely devastating to your average Sister or Elder who could suddenly find oneself shunned by one's community and even one's own family. If I were a spy trying to compromise a Mormon FBI agent, that's exactly where I'd start: get some dirt, threaten to send it to the agent's bishop or disseminate it throughout one's Ward, and get cooperation.

gremlinsinc 6y ago
Having also been a Mormon, couldn't this be said of anyone really? I mean nobody really wants their dirty secrets aired to the world, and it doesn't take the FBI to dig up dirt. Sam Young has dug up plenty of dirt and horror stories on church youth interviews. Joseph Bishop was raping girls in the MTC, etc... those came out organically without the FBI's involvement. If anything the church tries very hard to hide any scandals of members because it doesn't just make the member look bad it makes the church look bad... Because they have an image of being "REAL" prophets, seers, revelators who TALK face to face with Jesus. If they don't have the power of "discernment" then the whole church is a fabrication. (Hint: it is. See: CESLetter.org if in doubt).
- teclordphrack2 6y ago
  I don't give two F's or a s if you know what my kinks are. Being in my mid 30's I have since gotten over ALL your religious fuckery. You won't blackmail me with shlit. It would seem the FBI is hiring a bunch of nancy boys.
- drewcoo 6y ago
  > couldn't this be said of anyone really Grandparent: 5 is greater than 2. Parent: But aren't they both numbers?
- stickfigure 6y ago
  > couldn't this be said of anyone really? Not really? If someone tried to blackmail me by threatening to tell the world that I drink alcohol, watch porn, and have kinky sex I'd say... "you don't get out much, do you?" The pious don't have this leeway.
lcall 6y ago
Actually, I think there are some factual inaccuracies here, but I'm going to avoid a contest that resembles "no, you provide more references", and say what I know personally from long observation. I'm a lifelong, devoted and imperfect member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, who has had lessons to learn (and I trust/hope I have learned them and will keep learning); I'm not any kind of official rep. What I believe and understand to be doctrinally at the core of things, is that all but One have sinned (we are imperfect people in an imperfect world), which makes us unclean, and no unclean thing can dwell with God, who knows everything and has made a way for us to become clean, having learned some things. If we confess our sins (appropriately), and forsake them (meaning change, even if it takes a lifelong effort, keep trying always to improve and honestly go forward), then we are forgiven. Everyone over, say, 8, can understand enough of that. We can't deceive God. But we can be clean and forgiven, because Jesus Christ himself paid the price of our sins, if we choose to follow Him. And, honesty before an all-knowing God is more important than saving our lives, because we know life continues beyond mortality, and this knowledge is personal -- for me, it doesn't depend on what someone else said or might say, because I have learned it (enough for some decisions) for myself, not due to pressure or whatever. There are dear family members who have disaffiliated with the Church, openly, and we love them and they are always included in our lives, certainly not shunned! (That would be bad -- they are our family and we would be deeply sad otherwise -- similarly for many others, neighbors etc.) Freely making choices per one's honest conscience, in the absence of compulsion, is very central. And God will be the judge, not rumors or such, so what He thinks is vastly more important to me than what "people" think (though I should try not to make false impressions on "people", too). I think it is hard to blackmail someone who truly believes this. Jesus said (as I recall): ~ "...ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free." And many other relevant things. (More on my personal views, linked from my profile. But I'm just me.) Individuals in any large group will have a variety of political or other opinions. Edit: and human flaws. Ultimately, we should love everyone (also a commandment), but in the final end, we don't answer to "people", and trust is ... earned by behavior over time (IMO).
- lcall 6y ago
  ps: the Handbook that desribes Church discipline is available online to all, and such discipline requires witnesses or confession (edit: or evidence, probably); so fabricated accusations, while probably painful, won't cause excommunication. There is also (to us) scripture that says Church discipline can only deprive one of membership, not of personal property or life, and that we should obey the law. Appeals are possible, and again, God knows everything anyway and things really can be OK. pps: I have lived in and visited a variety of places, and I read a lot. The Church is the best influence in my life, helping me and others I know, in some very hard times. A lot there.

gremlinsinc 6y ago

Having also been a Mormon, couldn't this be said of anyone really? I mean nobody really wants their dirty secrets aired to the world, and it doesn't take the FBI to dig up dirt. Sam Young has dug up plenty of dirt and horror stories on church youth interviews. Joseph Bishop was raping girls in the MTC, etc... those came out organically without the FBI's involvement. If anything the church tries very hard to hide any scandals of members because it doesn't just make the member look bad it makes the church look bad... Because they have an image of being "REAL" prophets, seers, revelators who TALK face to face with Jesus. If they don't have the power of "discernment" then the whole church is a fabrication. (Hint: it is. See: CESLetter.org if in doubt).

teclordphrack2 6y ago
I don't give two F's or a s if you know what my kinks are. Being in my mid 30's I have since gotten over ALL your religious fuckery. You won't blackmail me with shlit. It would seem the FBI is hiring a bunch of nancy boys.
drewcoo 6y ago
> couldn't this be said of anyone really Grandparent: 5 is greater than 2. Parent: But aren't they both numbers?
stickfigure 6y ago
> couldn't this be said of anyone really? Not really? If someone tried to blackmail me by threatening to tell the world that I drink alcohol, watch porn, and have kinky sex I'd say... "you don't get out much, do you?" The pious don't have this leeway.

lcall 6y ago

Actually, I think there are some factual inaccuracies here, but I'm going to avoid a contest that resembles "no, you provide more references", and say what I know personally from long observation. I'm a lifelong, devoted and imperfect member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, who has had lessons to learn (and I trust/hope I have learned them and will keep learning); I'm not any kind of official rep. What I believe and understand to be doctrinally at the core of things, is that all but One have sinned (we are imperfect people in an imperfect world), which makes us unclean, and no unclean thing can dwell with God, who knows everything and has made a way for us to become clean, having learned some things. If we confess our sins (appropriately), and forsake them (meaning change, even if it takes a lifelong effort, keep trying always to improve and honestly go forward), then we are forgiven. Everyone over, say, 8, can understand enough of that. We can't deceive God. But we can be clean and forgiven, because Jesus Christ himself paid the price of our sins, if we choose to follow Him. And, honesty before an all-knowing God is more important than saving our lives, because we know life continues beyond mortality, and this knowledge is personal -- for me, it doesn't depend on what someone else said or might say, because I have learned it (enough for some decisions) for myself, not due to pressure or whatever. There are dear family members who have disaffiliated with the Church, openly, and we love them and they are always included in our lives, certainly not shunned! (That would be bad -- they are our family and we would be deeply sad otherwise -- similarly for many others, neighbors etc.) Freely making choices per one's honest conscience, in the absence of compulsion, is very central. And God will be the judge, not rumors or such, so what He thinks is vastly more important to me than what "people" think (though I should try not to make false impressions on "people", too). I think it is hard to blackmail someone who truly believes this. Jesus said (as I recall): ~ "...ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free." And many other relevant things. (More on my personal views, linked from my profile. But I'm just me.) Individuals in any large group will have a variety of political or other opinions. Edit: and human flaws. Ultimately, we should love everyone (also a commandment), but in the final end, we don't answer to "people", and trust is ... earned by behavior over time (IMO).

lcall 6y ago
ps: the Handbook that desribes Church discipline is available online to all, and such discipline requires witnesses or confession (edit: or evidence, probably); so fabricated accusations, while probably painful, won't cause excommunication. There is also (to us) scripture that says Church discipline can only deprive one of membership, not of personal property or life, and that we should obey the law. Appeals are possible, and again, God knows everything anyway and things really can be OK. pps: I have lived in and visited a variety of places, and I read a lot. The Church is the best influence in my life, helping me and others I know, in some very hard times. A lot there.