6 ms·

I’ve been hearing for decades about how great and cheap prefab homes are, so when I recently started looking I to adding a second home on my lot (~800sq ft or s

I’ve been hearing for decades about how great and cheap prefab homes are, so when I recently started looking I to adding a second home on my lot (~800sq ft or so), I looked into it. What I found was very disappointing - costs were the same or higher when compared to a custom unit built in-place, and the options for style, layout, and size were much less. There is some advantage in speed, but at this size it’s a matter of a few months difference- not enough for the trade offs.

chasil 6y ago
The market leader of prefab homes in the U.S. (afaik) is Clayton Homes, a subsidiary of Berkshire Hathaway, "run" by Warren Buffet. Clayton Homes was in the news earlier this decade for abusive loan practices. They are likely best avoided, and I say this as a Berkshire stockholder. https://money.com/warren-buffett-berkshire-hathaway-clayton-homes-scandal/ https://money.com/warren-buffett-berkshire-hathaway-clayton-... I have been to Omaha for a few shareholders' meetings, and I've toured a Clayton prefab home erected in the convention center. I do like the aesthetics of the Japanese prefab home that is in the article, but I cannot imagine anyone using the glass shower or tub that open to the entire neighborhood in this picture (to say nothing of having it behind my desk): https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/dwell-ugc/photos/6063391372700811264/6774759862847479808/large.jpg https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/dwell-ugc/photos/60633913... Glass in the shower needs far too much cleaning anyway, so that really isn't a good idea from several perspectives.
- oh_sigh 6y ago
  This doesn't even look like a house to me. It kind of looks like a law firm's office with a bathtub inexplicably placed in the middle.
- bin_bash 6y ago
  it might be "smart glass" that can frost over: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jrtfsSNGPKc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jrtfsSNGPKc
- J_cst 6y ago
  Glass shower can be kept clean and perfect in 30 seconds using this cheap tool just after taking the shower: https://www.arredobagno360.it/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/800x800/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/5/3/53290.jpg https://www.arredobagno360.it/media/catalog/product/cache/1/... That's my personal experience :)
  - vincnetas 6y ago
    And if you lazy, water softner can also help you keep the glass clean. That's my preference.
- pjc50 6y ago
  That tub has to be an architect's stunt, you couldn't possibly use it. Especially as the house doesn't seem to have curtains or blinds either.
- baybal2 6y ago
  > I do like the aesthetics of the Japanese prefab home that is in the article, but I cannot imagine anyone using the glass shower or tub that open to the entire neighborhood in this picture (to say nothing of having it behind my desk): Some apartment buildings in China have bathrooms on balconies. Try taking shower in -5C°
- ungamedplayer 6y ago
  Glass showers are -extrememely- common in Australia.
  - bluGill 6y ago
    They are common in the US, but they are contained in a bathroom that has solid walls. I can't think of any culture where people would be comfortable with a bathroom layout that allows anyone to just look in. That limits this bathroom to small apartments for singles (or couples with no kids) who don't entertain, and from what I know of Japanese culture I'm not sure it would catch on there. As a marketing effort though it makes sense. You can show the whole thing off at a show to someone walking by and anyone who is interested can imagine how it would look with solid walls.
    - oasisbob 6y ago
      My most recent home here in Seattle was built with glass showers. The house was a three-story townhome, with the master shower up top, "overlooking" the stairwell. The second floor bathroom is split into two - a toilet on one end of the hallway, a glass shower on the other end made by boxing off the end of the hallway with a sliding-glass door and large windows. Both sets of glass are frosted. It's clear that the architect used the showers to help with lighting - the side of the building with the showers has the best exposure, and by keeping them translucent all the way into the living space, the hallways, stairs, and master bedroom are bathed in natural light. Despite the frosted glass, the showers do have a slight exhibitionist feel at first. The second floor shower has a roll-down blind on the outside, primarily for guests. The third floor shower has partial window treatments, which provides enough privacy given the layout of the neighborhood. We thought it might be a bit uncomfortable; however, it works out well, and almost all guests have declined to use the blinds. I was surprised too.
tired-dev 6y ago
Yeah, I've really never been impressed with the quality of any prfab house I've toured. Especially looking at any built at least 20 years ago, they just seem so cheap compared to all the comps, and ironically never seemed much less expensive.
DubiousPusher 6y ago
Not sure where you're looking but modulars are definitely cheaper in the Western US. Many off the freeway modular dealers can get you a three bed for under 200k. They are not attractive though. Clayton, Champion, Commodore , etc fall into this category. If you step up to a higher end manufacturer you end up paying about the price of a site built but with much nicer finishes than the comparable site built. Method, Ideabox, Timberland, etc fall into this category.
NotPavlovsDog 6y ago
What we haven't solved in the value creation equation is the people factor, whether in software, construction or medicine. It does get easier to address at scale. When applied to construction, the at-scale approach used to increase predictability is primarily available through a) pre-fab construction under conditions approaching control b) repeat buildings, the classic cookie-cutter houses. There's a reason why they're popular with developers. A custom house will take longer and cost more than the estimate, on average. There is research on this in both small-scale and large-scale construction. As a personal anecdote, I & partner built our own permanent dwelling (check my posts). It went over time and over budget, and even then, we had to compromise on features. Don't forget that central heating /AC and "proper" insulation are not a standard feature in Japanese construction. Neither are cellars nor sound-proofing. Their plumbing is rarely winterized, and they often have the classic approach of kitchen on one side of wall, bathroom on the other. That's one bathroom, and a much simpler plumbing setup than multi-units popular in Europe or the US. These are just some factors in a long list that significantly simplify projects in Japan and make pre-fab a strong contender. The Japanese consumer expects less and pays the same if not more.
- brigandish 6y ago
  > Don't forget that central heating /AC and "proper" insulation are not a standard feature in Japanese construction. A recent Reddit thread of non-Japanese immigrants (I won't link it in case it brings blow back for them) had this (insulation specifically but heating more generally) as the top complaint about living in Japan. Aluminium window frames… I curse them. Edit: typo
  - Qwertious 6y ago
    >Aluminium window frames… I curse them. What? Why? High embodied energy, terrible insulation, and I don't picture aluminium as a cheap material.
    - fomine3 6y ago
      Traditionally wood was used for window frames but it couldn't provide enough amount for building after WW2.. Aluminum is better than wood for durability and air sealing but stupid for insulation. Now all major window frame manufacturer is aluminum industry so that's why transition to resin window frames is hard..
bluGill 6y ago
Custom homes use a lot of standardized parts. A 2x4 is the same in Width and Depth in all the US. One of the most common lengths to buy them in is 92 5/8 - which is the perfect size when you have a 2x4 on the bottom of a wall and 2 on the top for the standard sized wall boards to fit, thus saving a lot of labor cutting each board to length. If you want a taller wall, you can also buy 104 5/8s lengths, and there is wallboard that is a bit wider so it fits exactly. If you want a wall height other than those two you will pay extra because there is a lot more labor. Most custom houses should be looked at as custom kits. The standard gives a lot of room for the types of customization people actually want to do, while not a lot of room for the types people do anyway. Round towers look nice, but in practice they waste a lot of space compared to rectangular because nothing fits either inside or outside. (Castles went to round towers when cannons got strong enough to to knock down flat walls, for a while round was enough better in defense as to be worth the downsides)

chasil 6y ago

The market leader of prefab homes in the U.S. (afaik) is Clayton Homes, a subsidiary of Berkshire Hathaway, "run" by Warren Buffet. Clayton Homes was in the news earlier this decade for abusive loan practices. They are likely best avoided, and I say this as a Berkshire stockholder. https://money.com/warren-buffett-berkshire-hathaway-clayton-homes-scandal/ https://money.com/warren-buffett-berkshire-hathaway-clayton-... I have been to Omaha for a few shareholders' meetings, and I've toured a Clayton prefab home erected in the convention center. I do like the aesthetics of the Japanese prefab home that is in the article, but I cannot imagine anyone using the glass shower or tub that open to the entire neighborhood in this picture (to say nothing of having it behind my desk): https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/dwell-ugc/photos/6063391372700811264/6774759862847479808/large.jpg https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/dwell-ugc/photos/60633913... Glass in the shower needs far too much cleaning anyway, so that really isn't a good idea from several perspectives.

oh_sigh 6y ago
This doesn't even look like a house to me. It kind of looks like a law firm's office with a bathtub inexplicably placed in the middle.
bin_bash 6y ago
it might be "smart glass" that can frost over: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jrtfsSNGPKc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jrtfsSNGPKc
J_cst 6y ago
Glass shower can be kept clean and perfect in 30 seconds using this cheap tool just after taking the shower: https://www.arredobagno360.it/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/800x800/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/5/3/53290.jpg https://www.arredobagno360.it/media/catalog/product/cache/1/... That's my personal experience :)
- vincnetas 6y ago
  And if you lazy, water softner can also help you keep the glass clean. That's my preference.
pjc50 6y ago
That tub has to be an architect's stunt, you couldn't possibly use it. Especially as the house doesn't seem to have curtains or blinds either.
baybal2 6y ago
> I do like the aesthetics of the Japanese prefab home that is in the article, but I cannot imagine anyone using the glass shower or tub that open to the entire neighborhood in this picture (to say nothing of having it behind my desk): Some apartment buildings in China have bathrooms on balconies. Try taking shower in -5C°
ungamedplayer 6y ago
Glass showers are -extrememely- common in Australia.
- bluGill 6y ago
  They are common in the US, but they are contained in a bathroom that has solid walls. I can't think of any culture where people would be comfortable with a bathroom layout that allows anyone to just look in. That limits this bathroom to small apartments for singles (or couples with no kids) who don't entertain, and from what I know of Japanese culture I'm not sure it would catch on there. As a marketing effort though it makes sense. You can show the whole thing off at a show to someone walking by and anyone who is interested can imagine how it would look with solid walls.
  - oasisbob 6y ago
    My most recent home here in Seattle was built with glass showers. The house was a three-story townhome, with the master shower up top, "overlooking" the stairwell. The second floor bathroom is split into two - a toilet on one end of the hallway, a glass shower on the other end made by boxing off the end of the hallway with a sliding-glass door and large windows. Both sets of glass are frosted. It's clear that the architect used the showers to help with lighting - the side of the building with the showers has the best exposure, and by keeping them translucent all the way into the living space, the hallways, stairs, and master bedroom are bathed in natural light. Despite the frosted glass, the showers do have a slight exhibitionist feel at first. The second floor shower has a roll-down blind on the outside, primarily for guests. The third floor shower has partial window treatments, which provides enough privacy given the layout of the neighborhood. We thought it might be a bit uncomfortable; however, it works out well, and almost all guests have declined to use the blinds. I was surprised too.

tired-dev 6y ago

Yeah, I've really never been impressed with the quality of any prfab house I've toured. Especially looking at any built at least 20 years ago, they just seem so cheap compared to all the comps, and ironically never seemed much less expensive.

DubiousPusher 6y ago

Not sure where you're looking but modulars are definitely cheaper in the Western US. Many off the freeway modular dealers can get you a three bed for under 200k. They are not attractive though. Clayton, Champion, Commodore , etc fall into this category. If you step up to a higher end manufacturer you end up paying about the price of a site built but with much nicer finishes than the comparable site built. Method, Ideabox, Timberland, etc fall into this category.

NotPavlovsDog 6y ago

What we haven't solved in the value creation equation is the people factor, whether in software, construction or medicine. It does get easier to address at scale. When applied to construction, the at-scale approach used to increase predictability is primarily available through a) pre-fab construction under conditions approaching control b) repeat buildings, the classic cookie-cutter houses. There's a reason why they're popular with developers. A custom house will take longer and cost more than the estimate, on average. There is research on this in both small-scale and large-scale construction. As a personal anecdote, I & partner built our own permanent dwelling (check my posts). It went over time and over budget, and even then, we had to compromise on features. Don't forget that central heating /AC and "proper" insulation are not a standard feature in Japanese construction. Neither are cellars nor sound-proofing. Their plumbing is rarely winterized, and they often have the classic approach of kitchen on one side of wall, bathroom on the other. That's one bathroom, and a much simpler plumbing setup than multi-units popular in Europe or the US. These are just some factors in a long list that significantly simplify projects in Japan and make pre-fab a strong contender. The Japanese consumer expects less and pays the same if not more.

brigandish 6y ago
> Don't forget that central heating /AC and "proper" insulation are not a standard feature in Japanese construction. A recent Reddit thread of non-Japanese immigrants (I won't link it in case it brings blow back for them) had this (insulation specifically but heating more generally) as the top complaint about living in Japan. Aluminium window frames… I curse them. Edit: typo
- Qwertious 6y ago
  >Aluminium window frames… I curse them. What? Why? High embodied energy, terrible insulation, and I don't picture aluminium as a cheap material.
  - fomine3 6y ago
    Traditionally wood was used for window frames but it couldn't provide enough amount for building after WW2.. Aluminum is better than wood for durability and air sealing but stupid for insulation. Now all major window frame manufacturer is aluminum industry so that's why transition to resin window frames is hard..

bluGill 6y ago

Custom homes use a lot of standardized parts. A 2x4 is the same in Width and Depth in all the US. One of the most common lengths to buy them in is 92 5/8 - which is the perfect size when you have a 2x4 on the bottom of a wall and 2 on the top for the standard sized wall boards to fit, thus saving a lot of labor cutting each board to length. If you want a taller wall, you can also buy 104 5/8s lengths, and there is wallboard that is a bit wider so it fits exactly. If you want a wall height other than those two you will pay extra because there is a lot more labor. Most custom houses should be looked at as custom kits. The standard gives a lot of room for the types of customization people actually want to do, while not a lot of room for the types people do anyway. Round towers look nice, but in practice they waste a lot of space compared to rectangular because nothing fits either inside or outside. (Castles went to round towers when cannons got strong enough to to knock down flat walls, for a while round was enough better in defense as to be worth the downsides)