3 ms·

How did they avoid the cost of ipv4? I would think they still support it since a lot of stuff is v4 only. Are they using CGNAT for v4? I wonder how many people

How did they avoid the cost of ipv4? I would think they still support it since a lot of stuff is v4 only. Are they using CGNAT for v4? I wonder how many people you could put under a single v4 address with CGNAT. Those v6 numbers look promising though. Maybe one day we will be able to directly route between home networks again without dynamic dns and other ugly hacks.

IgorPartola 6y ago
You can use IPv6 today. If your ISP doesn’t give you a connection, get a tunnel set up with Hurricane Electric. Since about 2012 I’ve considered any network that doesn’t have IPv6 to be broken. I think currently I run only one site that doesn’t support it and next time I touch it I’ll convert it to dual stack. If you are curious, you could always get a browser extension that shows you which IP version a given site was loaded on to see how many actually support IPv6, or just straight up disable IPv4 on your network for a bit to see what happens.
- delsarto 6y ago
  The problem with this is that most big services now support IPv6, and probably have CDN's literally co-located within your ISP, or very close to. Even if the tunnel endpoint is not that far from you, I found it still makes a big difference in day-to-day operation tunneling past these edge caches.
  - IgorPartola 6y ago
    Your ISP may well already support IPv6, especially if they have CDN endpoints in their data centers.
    - delsarto 6y ago
      Yes, I actually pay a premium to go with an ISP that has a decent implementation of native IPv6. I work day-to-day with several clouds that are IPv6 only (they have IPv4 NAT for getting out) so it makes things significantly easier.
- wahern 6y ago
  I have Cogent Fiber to my office and because of installation and other costs (e.g. healthy SMTP IPv4 status) I'm not keen to change it. I have a /64 from Cogent, but Cogent and HE still refuse to peer after all these years. If you're a direct HE or Cogent customer, to reach the other's network you have to arrange transit with a third party. As a practical matter my IPv6 block is crippled, as are those from HE. (Something similar might also be going on with Cogent/Google, too.) If I need to go through the rigamarole of tunnel brokering, BGP advertising, etc, I may as well just get my own block from ARIN. Vultr offers BGP brokering for a pittance, and they (presumably) have peering arrangements that handle the HE/Cogent debacle. I also want to try to get an IPv4 block, so I can enjoy SMTP hosting portability across ISPs. It would be nice to not be constantly harassed by Cogent sales staff. One of these days....
  - IgorPartola 6y ago
    Didn’t know about Cogent and HE, that’s unfortunate. I was reading recently about whether you can get IP allocations and it seemed to me that ARIN basically requires that you show that you’ll be using some large percentage of addresses right away and keep growing that usage. Basically they seem to want to give them to ISPs or hosting providers. Can you can your own IPv6 block as a private small business?
    - toast0 6y ago
      ARIN makes you justify an ASN (you need to have at least two ASNs that will connect with you, making you multihomed). If you've got an ASN, you qualify for a minimum allocation, regardless of use. That's a /24 for v4 and a /48 for IPv6. Of course, ARIN doesn't have any /24s to assign, but you need to qualify to have them transferred when you find a seller. There's otherways to qualify for an IPv6 delegation, but GP wants to be multihomed, at least a little. https://www.arin.net/resources/guide/ipv6/first_request/ https://www.arin.net/resources/guide/ipv6/first_request/
      - IgorPartola 6y ago
        Ah so I was thinking about getting an ASN maybe. It seems I can say that I need IP space to use 2000 IPv6 addresses in the next year. That’s probably not far off from what I already do. Do you happen to know any guides on how to set up and use your own IP space, either with my ISP or with a cloud provider.
- topranks 6y ago
  None of the kit I have can do GRE encap fast enough for the tunnel to be a good alternative to the native v4 I have.
toast0 6y ago
They had to buy some IPv4 addresses, which they use for CGNAT; they put a lot more customers per IP than T-Mobile US does though. Then they push everyone they partner with hard to do IPv6. And it makes sense too, if your customers are on Jio, things will work better if you can do IPv6 to keep them off CGNAT.

IgorPartola 6y ago

You can use IPv6 today. If your ISP doesn’t give you a connection, get a tunnel set up with Hurricane Electric. Since about 2012 I’ve considered any network that doesn’t have IPv6 to be broken. I think currently I run only one site that doesn’t support it and next time I touch it I’ll convert it to dual stack. If you are curious, you could always get a browser extension that shows you which IP version a given site was loaded on to see how many actually support IPv6, or just straight up disable IPv4 on your network for a bit to see what happens.

delsarto 6y ago
The problem with this is that most big services now support IPv6, and probably have CDN's literally co-located within your ISP, or very close to. Even if the tunnel endpoint is not that far from you, I found it still makes a big difference in day-to-day operation tunneling past these edge caches.
- IgorPartola 6y ago
  Your ISP may well already support IPv6, especially if they have CDN endpoints in their data centers.
  - delsarto 6y ago
    Yes, I actually pay a premium to go with an ISP that has a decent implementation of native IPv6. I work day-to-day with several clouds that are IPv6 only (they have IPv4 NAT for getting out) so it makes things significantly easier.
wahern 6y ago
I have Cogent Fiber to my office and because of installation and other costs (e.g. healthy SMTP IPv4 status) I'm not keen to change it. I have a /64 from Cogent, but Cogent and HE still refuse to peer after all these years. If you're a direct HE or Cogent customer, to reach the other's network you have to arrange transit with a third party. As a practical matter my IPv6 block is crippled, as are those from HE. (Something similar might also be going on with Cogent/Google, too.) If I need to go through the rigamarole of tunnel brokering, BGP advertising, etc, I may as well just get my own block from ARIN. Vultr offers BGP brokering for a pittance, and they (presumably) have peering arrangements that handle the HE/Cogent debacle. I also want to try to get an IPv4 block, so I can enjoy SMTP hosting portability across ISPs. It would be nice to not be constantly harassed by Cogent sales staff. One of these days....
- IgorPartola 6y ago
  Didn’t know about Cogent and HE, that’s unfortunate. I was reading recently about whether you can get IP allocations and it seemed to me that ARIN basically requires that you show that you’ll be using some large percentage of addresses right away and keep growing that usage. Basically they seem to want to give them to ISPs or hosting providers. Can you can your own IPv6 block as a private small business?
  - toast0 6y ago
    ARIN makes you justify an ASN (you need to have at least two ASNs that will connect with you, making you multihomed). If you've got an ASN, you qualify for a minimum allocation, regardless of use. That's a /24 for v4 and a /48 for IPv6. Of course, ARIN doesn't have any /24s to assign, but you need to qualify to have them transferred when you find a seller. There's otherways to qualify for an IPv6 delegation, but GP wants to be multihomed, at least a little. https://www.arin.net/resources/guide/ipv6/first_request/ https://www.arin.net/resources/guide/ipv6/first_request/
    - IgorPartola 6y ago
      Ah so I was thinking about getting an ASN maybe. It seems I can say that I need IP space to use 2000 IPv6 addresses in the next year. That’s probably not far off from what I already do. Do you happen to know any guides on how to set up and use your own IP space, either with my ISP or with a cloud provider.
topranks 6y ago
None of the kit I have can do GRE encap fast enough for the tunnel to be a good alternative to the native v4 I have.

toast0 6y ago

They had to buy some IPv4 addresses, which they use for CGNAT; they put a lot more customers per IP than T-Mobile US does though. Then they push everyone they partner with hard to do IPv6. And it makes sense too, if your customers are on Jio, things will work better if you can do IPv6 to keep them off CGNAT.