6 ms·

There's actually lots of interesting things about the Japanese housing market: it's not a speculative investment (most houses lose value), much of the housing i

There's actually lots of interesting things about the Japanese housing market: it's not a speculative investment (most houses lose value), much of the housing is designed to be disposable (lifespan 20-30 years), rents are quite affordable even in the biggest cities but commutes are long and size tends to be tiny by Western standards. But I agree that prefabs aren't particularly interesting.

jdshaffer 6y ago
Pretty much here in Japan the houses ARE considered disposable -- at least if you go to buy a house or build a house you quickly realize that the big chunk of money is for the land and even though building your house will be expensive, it'll be worth nearly nothing when/if you go to sell it. (That's why I've hesitated to buy a house here...)
- BurningFrog 6y ago
  Sounds like you can get a "second hand" house very cheaply. Or is the catch that they're so cheaply built that you don't want to live in them?
  - brigandish 6y ago
    > Or is the catch that they're so cheaply built that you don't want to live in them? Yes, or at least they'll need a big refurb.
  - bobthepanda 6y ago
    Keep in mind that one factor the rest of the world probably doesn’t have is earthquake codes. Japan has very stringent building regulations and they usually get updated after major events. The most recent revisions were in 1981 and 2000; a house is going to have poor resale value if it will kill you in the event of an earthquake.
    - baybal2 6y ago
      Well, yet they still build with wood...
      - Tor3 6y ago
        But these days there's a steel frame keeping the top storey from falling down into the lower storey, as will typically happen in an earthquake with older style homes.
      - bluGill 6y ago
        Wood works well in earthquakes - when you design for it. Wood is flexible so shaking it won't damage anything structural and so repair is cosmetic. (the above is strongly an over simplification!) That is why Japan builds with wood a lot instead of brick/rock: after the earthquake you have a safe place to live while you repair it. Repairs might be so expensive that you rebuild, but at least you can a safe roof while building the new place. Not to mention if you were inside you don't die of building collapse.
        baybal2 6y ago
        > Wood works well in earthquakes - when you design for it. I highly doubt that "designing for it" really beats inherently stronger building materials to specifically choose wood with its many, many other disadvantages over something else.
        bluGill 6y ago
        Actually it does. Wood is flexible in ways the most of your stronger materials are not. Iron works, but it is more expensive and doesn't really have any advantage until you are going tall (tall being about 6 floors, but consult an engineer for details) There is a reason Japan traditionally used wood, it works well in general. The design for it parts of wood are not hard - I don't know Japanese history, but I'd guess they figured it out well B.C.
        6y ago
bobthepanda 6y ago
The long commute can be explained, IMO, in part by the transportation allowance, where employers are allowed to subsidize up to 1000USD/mo of commuting costs. It makes “commute until you qualify” longer than it might otherwise be. And it doesn’t help that there has long been a tendency to overcentralize in Tokyo, which is very large and can take a while to commute around.

jdshaffer 6y ago

Pretty much here in Japan the houses ARE considered disposable -- at least if you go to buy a house or build a house you quickly realize that the big chunk of money is for the land and even though building your house will be expensive, it'll be worth nearly nothing when/if you go to sell it. (That's why I've hesitated to buy a house here...)

BurningFrog 6y ago
Sounds like you can get a "second hand" house very cheaply. Or is the catch that they're so cheaply built that you don't want to live in them?
- brigandish 6y ago
  > Or is the catch that they're so cheaply built that you don't want to live in them? Yes, or at least they'll need a big refurb.
- bobthepanda 6y ago
  Keep in mind that one factor the rest of the world probably doesn’t have is earthquake codes. Japan has very stringent building regulations and they usually get updated after major events. The most recent revisions were in 1981 and 2000; a house is going to have poor resale value if it will kill you in the event of an earthquake.
  - baybal2 6y ago
    Well, yet they still build with wood...
    - Tor3 6y ago
      But these days there's a steel frame keeping the top storey from falling down into the lower storey, as will typically happen in an earthquake with older style homes.
    - bluGill 6y ago
      Wood works well in earthquakes - when you design for it. Wood is flexible so shaking it won't damage anything structural and so repair is cosmetic. (the above is strongly an over simplification!) That is why Japan builds with wood a lot instead of brick/rock: after the earthquake you have a safe place to live while you repair it. Repairs might be so expensive that you rebuild, but at least you can a safe roof while building the new place. Not to mention if you were inside you don't die of building collapse.
      - baybal2 6y ago
        > Wood works well in earthquakes - when you design for it. I highly doubt that "designing for it" really beats inherently stronger building materials to specifically choose wood with its many, many other disadvantages over something else.
        bluGill 6y ago
        Actually it does. Wood is flexible in ways the most of your stronger materials are not. Iron works, but it is more expensive and doesn't really have any advantage until you are going tall (tall being about 6 floors, but consult an engineer for details) There is a reason Japan traditionally used wood, it works well in general. The design for it parts of wood are not hard - I don't know Japanese history, but I'd guess they figured it out well B.C.
        6y ago

bobthepanda 6y ago

The long commute can be explained, IMO, in part by the transportation allowance, where employers are allowed to subsidize up to 1000USD/mo of commuting costs. It makes “commute until you qualify” longer than it might otherwise be. And it doesn’t help that there has long been a tendency to overcentralize in Tokyo, which is very large and can take a while to commute around.