6 ms·

Honestly not surprising. I bought a washing machine from LG a year or two ago. At first, I didn't bother even looking into its "connected" features, but recentl

Honestly not surprising. I bought a washing machine from LG a year or two ago. At first, I didn't bother even looking into its "connected" features, but recently I came into a spare iPhone that was just gathering dust, so I figured why not give it a shot, maybe there's something useful here. Holy hell. The app itself refuses to even attempt to connect to any device, unless granted Location Services permission. WTF? I mean, I expected spyware, I guess I just didn't expect them to be so god damn brazen about it. After that, it turns out the appliance itself refuses to stay connected to the wifi network unless it can phone home. Needless to say, it ignores both forms of proxy configuration (WPAD and DHCP option) as well. Give it direct Internet, or give it death.

_mitch 6y ago
If an app needs to connect to a Wi-Fi AP on the appliance, you have to allow location since having access to the Wi-Fi scan of networks that are in range can allow for some coarse geolocation, thanks to open source SSID databases [1]. I wish Android and iOS would add functionality that allowed an app to connect to a known SSID without access to the scan because the permission requirement is rightly off-putting. [1] https://wigle.net/map?maplat=37.76559999999937&maplon=-122.42459999999792&mapzoom=13&coloring=density https://wigle.net/map?maplat=37.76559999999937&maplon=-122.4...
- boring_twenties 6y ago
  I could be wrong but I don't think this is the case? Even after enabling the Location Services access, I still had to manually connect to the appliance's AP through the iOS Settings app.
- bscphil 6y ago
  > I wish Android and iOS would add functionality that allowed an app to connect to a known SSID without access to the scan Would that really help that much? If you know the user's approximate area, e.g. by IP address, and their SSID is unique in that area, than if the app says to the OS "please connect to this SSID if it's available" and the connection happens, the app now has your location. I suppose that's a case for making location access more granular, not leaving things the way they are. But I bet people doing UIs for Google and Apple won't do that because the average user doesn't understand the possible location implications of giving away your SSID.
smegger001 6y ago
sounds like my dishwasher
dragonsky67 6y ago
May I ask what features your washing machine needs internet access for? I maybe be a bit backward, but it's a washing machine, it washes clothes, I can't see how that would ever require accessing the internet.
- novok 6y ago
  It can ping you when it's done, useful if you cant hear it or forget.
  - chiefalchemist 6y ago
    Privacy is useful as well. Death by a thousand conveniences? Gawd only knows what the app is doing while you're not doing laundry. Surveillance Capitalism is real. https://www.wnycstudios.org/podcasts/otm/segments/living-under-surveillance-capitalism-on-the-media https://www.wnycstudios.org/podcasts/otm/segments/living-und...
    - novok 6y ago
      GDPR and CCPA exist, don't be that pessimistic.
    - dredmorbius 6y ago
      "Death by a thousand conveniences" is inspired. And another OTM fan.
  - pwg 6y ago
    A count down timer on your phone's clock app can achieve the same effect, without the washer needing to be internet connected. Granted, you do have to remember to start the countdown timer.
    - culturestate 6y ago
      I have a combined washer/dryer that has a handy one-touch “wash and dry the stuff in the drum” setting, which is enabled in part by moisture detection in the drying phase. I let it know what kind of fabric it’s dealing with (cotton or synthetics) and it does the rest. Because of this, the total cycle time can be as little as 40 minutes or as long as 2 hours and I have no real control over it. I would love if it could ping my phone since I wear headphones a lot and often miss the chime.
JKCalhoun 6y ago
Seems to be violating one of the Rules of Robotics. It needs extermination.

_mitch 6y ago

If an app needs to connect to a Wi-Fi AP on the appliance, you have to allow location since having access to the Wi-Fi scan of networks that are in range can allow for some coarse geolocation, thanks to open source SSID databases [1]. I wish Android and iOS would add functionality that allowed an app to connect to a known SSID without access to the scan because the permission requirement is rightly off-putting. [1] https://wigle.net/map?maplat=37.76559999999937&maplon=-122.42459999999792&mapzoom=13&coloring=density https://wigle.net/map?maplat=37.76559999999937&maplon=-122.4...

boring_twenties 6y ago
I could be wrong but I don't think this is the case? Even after enabling the Location Services access, I still had to manually connect to the appliance's AP through the iOS Settings app.
bscphil 6y ago
> I wish Android and iOS would add functionality that allowed an app to connect to a known SSID without access to the scan Would that really help that much? If you know the user's approximate area, e.g. by IP address, and their SSID is unique in that area, than if the app says to the OS "please connect to this SSID if it's available" and the connection happens, the app now has your location. I suppose that's a case for making location access more granular, not leaving things the way they are. But I bet people doing UIs for Google and Apple won't do that because the average user doesn't understand the possible location implications of giving away your SSID.

smegger001 6y ago

sounds like my dishwasher

dragonsky67 6y ago

May I ask what features your washing machine needs internet access for? I maybe be a bit backward, but it's a washing machine, it washes clothes, I can't see how that would ever require accessing the internet.

novok 6y ago
It can ping you when it's done, useful if you cant hear it or forget.
- chiefalchemist 6y ago
  Privacy is useful as well. Death by a thousand conveniences? Gawd only knows what the app is doing while you're not doing laundry. Surveillance Capitalism is real. https://www.wnycstudios.org/podcasts/otm/segments/living-under-surveillance-capitalism-on-the-media https://www.wnycstudios.org/podcasts/otm/segments/living-und...
  - novok 6y ago
    GDPR and CCPA exist, don't be that pessimistic.
  - dredmorbius 6y ago
    "Death by a thousand conveniences" is inspired. And another OTM fan.
- pwg 6y ago
  A count down timer on your phone's clock app can achieve the same effect, without the washer needing to be internet connected. Granted, you do have to remember to start the countdown timer.
  - culturestate 6y ago
    I have a combined washer/dryer that has a handy one-touch “wash and dry the stuff in the drum” setting, which is enabled in part by moisture detection in the drying phase. I let it know what kind of fabric it’s dealing with (cotton or synthetics) and it does the rest. Because of this, the total cycle time can be as little as 40 minutes or as long as 2 hours and I have no real control over it. I would love if it could ping my phone since I wear headphones a lot and often miss the chime.

JKCalhoun 6y ago

Seems to be violating one of the Rules of Robotics. It needs extermination.