5 ms·

The same could be achieved by having different work hours in different seasons, no need to change the underlying metric of time to achieve this. It's as if we

The same could be achieved by having different work hours in different seasons, no need to change the underlying metric of time to achieve this. It's as if we redefined the density of water in winter so when you measure a frozen container of it the different volume yields the same weight. It might have made sense when there was a single clock in a whole village! But now with the planet probably containing 10x as many clocks as humans this is just complete lunacy.

ravi-delia 6y ago
Honestly, you're absolutely right. But we don't get to decide between a permanent DST and a unified switchover of business hours across the nation, we get to decide between a permanent DST and the crappy situation we have now. I, for one, would be measurably happier if I had more daytime after 5, because getting one bill passed is a whole lot easier than convincing every single scheduling body that has power over me to switch on a seasonal basis.
saalweachter 6y ago
> It's as if we redefined the density of water in winter so when you measure a frozen container of it the different volume yields the same weight. Oddly, this is exactly how the US "bushel" was defined -- it measures a mass of a specific type of grain at a particular moisture content, the idea being that the "quantity" of grain shouldn't change as it is dried.
- eMGm4D0zgUAVXc7 6y ago
  The density of water is also temperature-dependent :) My point is that the chain of determining the measurement of a natural value should start at the value, not at what we want it to be to then bend the value over backwards to be that then. So the example doesn't fall apart with a temperature-/moisture-dependent constant: The point is that the constant should not be arbitrarily changed to achieve a desired value. The constant should be measured/defined and stay as such.
hitpointdrew 6y ago
>The same could be achieved by having different work hours in different seasons, no need to change the underlying metric of time to achieve this. This is a mere pipe dream. Business aren't going to change their hours to different seasons. It would be much easier to just stay on DST then try and coerce business to change their employee hours based off the season.
- hunter2_ 6y ago
  The shock to our circadian rhythm, which would occur equally regardless of whether due to seasonal DST or due to seasonal 1-hour modifications to business hours, is responsible for loss of productivity/profitability/etc. But businesses can elect to smear their seasonal modifications with any granularity they want, avoiding severe shock to circadian rhythm, thus avoiding the financial hit! I guess DST could theoretically smear as well, but that is way more difficult for people to wrap their heads around.
- ryandrake 6y ago
  Why are business hours so unchangeable? People seem to just take this as a given, like the God Of Business carved 9-5 on a stone tablet.
  - denkmoon 6y ago
    Imagine the most uncooperative, petty boss/manager you've ever worked for. Imagine trying to convince them to change business hours. Multiply by tens of thousands.
  - pseudalopex 6y ago
    Businesses interact with other businesses and government agencies. Workers interact with schools and transit. It's about coordination not specific numbers.
- tshaddox 6y ago
  Not to mention that business hours are already not all the same. I’m not sure how so many people are missing that extremely obvious fact.
tshaddox 6y ago
> The same could be achieved by having different work hours in different seasons, no need to change the underlying metric of time to achieve this. Sure, but that’s just like saying that any two people could arrange things to do something at the same time and place by communicating a precise astronomical phenomenon at that place, like the azimuth of the Sun, then both people can work out when that will be relative to their personal schedules. Of course, the point of widely-used regional standards for timekeeping is simply to avoid the need to communicate and calculate precise phenomena to represent a local time.
Lammy 6y ago
The Sun is the original clock. It used to be that “noon” in any given town was when the Sun was directly overhead, so redefining our fake time to give humans more sunlight doesn’t feel weird to me at all. We only invented time zones so our trains would stop running into each other lol

ravi-delia 6y ago

Honestly, you're absolutely right. But we don't get to decide between a permanent DST and a unified switchover of business hours across the nation, we get to decide between a permanent DST and the crappy situation we have now. I, for one, would be measurably happier if I had more daytime after 5, because getting one bill passed is a whole lot easier than convincing every single scheduling body that has power over me to switch on a seasonal basis.

saalweachter 6y ago

> It's as if we redefined the density of water in winter so when you measure a frozen container of it the different volume yields the same weight. Oddly, this is exactly how the US "bushel" was defined -- it measures a mass of a specific type of grain at a particular moisture content, the idea being that the "quantity" of grain shouldn't change as it is dried.

eMGm4D0zgUAVXc7 6y ago
The density of water is also temperature-dependent :) My point is that the chain of determining the measurement of a natural value should start at the value, not at what we want it to be to then bend the value over backwards to be that then. So the example doesn't fall apart with a temperature-/moisture-dependent constant: The point is that the constant should not be arbitrarily changed to achieve a desired value. The constant should be measured/defined and stay as such.

hitpointdrew 6y ago

>The same could be achieved by having different work hours in different seasons, no need to change the underlying metric of time to achieve this. This is a mere pipe dream. Business aren't going to change their hours to different seasons. It would be much easier to just stay on DST then try and coerce business to change their employee hours based off the season.

hunter2_ 6y ago
The shock to our circadian rhythm, which would occur equally regardless of whether due to seasonal DST or due to seasonal 1-hour modifications to business hours, is responsible for loss of productivity/profitability/etc. But businesses can elect to smear their seasonal modifications with any granularity they want, avoiding severe shock to circadian rhythm, thus avoiding the financial hit! I guess DST could theoretically smear as well, but that is way more difficult for people to wrap their heads around.
ryandrake 6y ago
Why are business hours so unchangeable? People seem to just take this as a given, like the God Of Business carved 9-5 on a stone tablet.
- denkmoon 6y ago
  Imagine the most uncooperative, petty boss/manager you've ever worked for. Imagine trying to convince them to change business hours. Multiply by tens of thousands.
- pseudalopex 6y ago
  Businesses interact with other businesses and government agencies. Workers interact with schools and transit. It's about coordination not specific numbers.
tshaddox 6y ago
Not to mention that business hours are already not all the same. I’m not sure how so many people are missing that extremely obvious fact.

tshaddox 6y ago

> The same could be achieved by having different work hours in different seasons, no need to change the underlying metric of time to achieve this. Sure, but that’s just like saying that any two people could arrange things to do something at the same time and place by communicating a precise astronomical phenomenon at that place, like the azimuth of the Sun, then both people can work out when that will be relative to their personal schedules. Of course, the point of widely-used regional standards for timekeeping is simply to avoid the need to communicate and calculate precise phenomena to represent a local time.

Lammy 6y ago

The Sun is the original clock. It used to be that “noon” in any given town was when the Sun was directly overhead, so redefining our fake time to give humans more sunlight doesn’t feel weird to me at all. We only invented time zones so our trains would stop running into each other lol