6 ms·

How about we do it the other way: Eliminate daylight saving time and make standard time permanent?

ISL 6y ago
That way noon has the sun at zenith, which makes sense.
bryanlarsen 6y ago
That's my preference too, but making DST permanent is better than continuing to change twice a year. When confronted with three choices and none of the three have majority support, society usually chooses the "status quo" option. Even when a proper ranked choice vote would end up with one of the other two options. So I guess I need to keep quiet to ensure that we end up with our second choice rather than our third choice.
- UncleOxidant 6y ago
  Let's split the difference: Spring ahead 1/2 an hour and then keep the clocks there.
  - saalweachter 6y ago
    So the big problem is springing ahead. No one likes it. On the other hand, everyone loves falling back. I'd like to propose making the day approximately 9.86 seconds longer, so that each year we accumulate 1 hour of extra time. Then, each fall, we set the clocks back one hour. You get the benefits of DST (more sunlight later in the day in the summer) without the jarring "spring ahead" each year.
    - _-david-_ 6y ago
      It would be quite annoying to have your clock off a minute every week. The first couple weeks wouldn't be too big of an issue, but when you start getting 10 minutes off you would need to fix your clock.
      - saalweachter 6y ago
        Nah, it'd be "trivial" (in the way that generates employment for programmers, win-win) for your cell phone and computer to adjust automatically. You might be able to just get the NTP servers to make the adjustment daily and everyone else would just follow along without knowing it. Fancier wall clocks, too. If you've got a fancy watch, just go get its movement adjusted to run 10 seconds slow. Full employment for watchmakers too, it's a shovel-ready proposal!
        _-david-_ 6y ago
        Believe it or not but some of us still have dumb watches and clocks. I have a dumb clock in my bedroom, on my oven, and below my tv. I don't want to buy a fancy clock. I just want the clock to tell me the time and I don't want it connecting to my network just to be accurate.
        saalweachter 6y ago
        And depending on what sort of dumb clock your dumb clock is, it probably has a screw somewhere to make it run a little faster or slower, or something similar, to tune the clock to make it run at the right speed. You just give it a slight adjustment and presto-chango, it runs at the new speed. For clocks that take their timing from the frequency of the electric current in the power lines, that's fixable too.
        _-david-_ 6y ago
        It may be possible to change it, but its a hassle. I don't know if it is possible with something like an oven and wouldn't want to mess with something like that regardless. The solution to the time situation shouldn't be to be messing with electrical currents. That is just going to be a non-starter for so many people.
DavidAdams 6y ago
That's only good for early birds, because you end up with it being light for hours before most people are awake (during the summer). If you keep DST in place permanently, sundown happens later, and you eliminate the need for an extra hour of lighting every evening, which presumably saves electricity.
- croes 6y ago
  It's easier to stay awake when it's getting dark than become awake if it's still dark in the morning
  - DavidAdams 6y ago
    Yeah, but I'd 1000x rather commute to work when it's still dark than have it get dark before I get home.
    - croes 6y ago
      If you get to work by car it's safer with Standard Time.
      - leetcrew 6y ago
        assuming you're talking about daylight, it depends on your latitude and where your longitude falls in your timezone. with the current system, I drive to work in the dark and I drive home in the dark at different times of the year. I think it's more or less even for me, but maybe there's an optimal timing that minimizes everyone's commuting in the dark time. not that I feel particularly unsafe driving in the dark anyway, I only care if the sun is at an angle where I can't block it with my visor. either way, this seems like a marginal concern.
        ghaff 6y ago
        When I used to commute semi-regularly, part of it was along a highway (to use the term generously) that I swear was laid in a way to maximize the solar glare in some locations. One of those places is where it intersects with an interstate and semi-regularly you'd see cars that had been in accidents or the remnants of same at the side of the road.
hitpointdrew 6y ago
Oh hell no. The late day light is WAY better than early day light. I am not going to mow my lawn at 5 a.m. and piss off all my neighbors (plus the grass tends to have dew and be wet early). Mowing my lawn at 7 pm (if it is still light out), is not a problem.
- TimTheTinker 6y ago
  Daylight time proponents are effectively advocating that the standard work day start an hour earlier relative to the sunlight. I tend to disagree - better to let people sleep. There's a reason "standard" time was set up that way in the first place. I suspect it works better with our circadian rhythm that way.
  - thelean12 6y ago
    > I tend to disagree - better to let people sleep. I'm not advocating to move around the standard work day, but grown adults could just go to sleep an hour earlier. "let people sleep" makes no sense. It wouldn't take away an hour of their sleep.
    - TimTheTinker 6y ago
      This isn’t about “grown adults” and their capabilities. It’s about the well-being of society as a whole. There’s a lot more to consider than “when should working people show up for work”? Note that a significant portion of society doesn’t have a day job — kids, retired/elderly, caregivers & home-parents, disabled and unable to work, etc. In fact, the needs of these groups ought to be prioritized, since as you said, working adults can adapt.
  - watwut 6y ago
    Adults are sleep deprived not because of sun, but because of evening activities - games, reading internet, movies. They value a bit more entertainment or a bit more work more then sleep. Half a year there is dark long before adults go to sleep and also dark in the morning. Sun is not preventing sleep, but people dont sleep.
UncleOxidant 6y ago
It's bad enough as it is in the northern latitudes where you wake up at about 5:15AM in June because the sun is already pretty bright. Keeping it on standard time would mean waking up at 4:15AM. Also, it's nice having more daylight after work.
- tony101 6y ago
  I have the opposite problem where I live. With DST the sun does not rise until 8 AM. In fact, in January, the sun rises here at 7:40 AM Standard Time. Which would be 8:40 AM Daylight Time. It would be terrible to have to wake up an hour before sunrise.
watwut 6y ago
No. Standard time is the worst one.
ghaff 6y ago
A lot depends on where you live. In Boston which is fairly northernly by US standards and very far east in a time zone, for example, staying on Eastern Standard Time year round would mean it's sunrise at about 4AM on the summer solstice and it gets dark at 8:30pm rather than 9:30pm like today. Now, these days, I have a lot of schedule flexibility and at least for activities I'm doing on my own I could just get up earlier in the summer. I'll be a bit out of sync with business schedules but I could largely do it.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
axaxs 6y ago
States can already make standard time permanent if they want to. Obviously, not many do. This change just allows states to make DST permanent.

ISL 6y ago

That way noon has the sun at zenith, which makes sense.

That's my preference too, but making DST permanent is better than continuing to change twice a year. When confronted with three choices and none of the three have majority support, society usually chooses the "status quo" option. Even when a proper ranked choice vote would end up with one of the other two options. So I guess I need to keep quiet to ensure that we end up with our second choice rather than our third choice.

UncleOxidant 6y ago
Let's split the difference: Spring ahead 1/2 an hour and then keep the clocks there.
- saalweachter 6y ago
  So the big problem is springing ahead. No one likes it. On the other hand, everyone loves falling back. I'd like to propose making the day approximately 9.86 seconds longer, so that each year we accumulate 1 hour of extra time. Then, each fall, we set the clocks back one hour. You get the benefits of DST (more sunlight later in the day in the summer) without the jarring "spring ahead" each year.
  - _-david-_ 6y ago
    It would be quite annoying to have your clock off a minute every week. The first couple weeks wouldn't be too big of an issue, but when you start getting 10 minutes off you would need to fix your clock.
    - saalweachter 6y ago
      Nah, it'd be "trivial" (in the way that generates employment for programmers, win-win) for your cell phone and computer to adjust automatically. You might be able to just get the NTP servers to make the adjustment daily and everyone else would just follow along without knowing it. Fancier wall clocks, too. If you've got a fancy watch, just go get its movement adjusted to run 10 seconds slow. Full employment for watchmakers too, it's a shovel-ready proposal!
      - _-david-_ 6y ago
        Believe it or not but some of us still have dumb watches and clocks. I have a dumb clock in my bedroom, on my oven, and below my tv. I don't want to buy a fancy clock. I just want the clock to tell me the time and I don't want it connecting to my network just to be accurate.
        saalweachter 6y ago
        And depending on what sort of dumb clock your dumb clock is, it probably has a screw somewhere to make it run a little faster or slower, or something similar, to tune the clock to make it run at the right speed. You just give it a slight adjustment and presto-chango, it runs at the new speed. For clocks that take their timing from the frequency of the electric current in the power lines, that's fixable too.
        _-david-_ 6y ago
        It may be possible to change it, but its a hassle. I don't know if it is possible with something like an oven and wouldn't want to mess with something like that regardless. The solution to the time situation shouldn't be to be messing with electrical currents. That is just going to be a non-starter for so many people.

DavidAdams 6y ago

That's only good for early birds, because you end up with it being light for hours before most people are awake (during the summer). If you keep DST in place permanently, sundown happens later, and you eliminate the need for an extra hour of lighting every evening, which presumably saves electricity.

croes 6y ago
It's easier to stay awake when it's getting dark than become awake if it's still dark in the morning
- DavidAdams 6y ago
  Yeah, but I'd 1000x rather commute to work when it's still dark than have it get dark before I get home.
  - croes 6y ago
    If you get to work by car it's safer with Standard Time.
    - leetcrew 6y ago
      assuming you're talking about daylight, it depends on your latitude and where your longitude falls in your timezone. with the current system, I drive to work in the dark and I drive home in the dark at different times of the year. I think it's more or less even for me, but maybe there's an optimal timing that minimizes everyone's commuting in the dark time. not that I feel particularly unsafe driving in the dark anyway, I only care if the sun is at an angle where I can't block it with my visor. either way, this seems like a marginal concern.
      - ghaff 6y ago
        When I used to commute semi-regularly, part of it was along a highway (to use the term generously) that I swear was laid in a way to maximize the solar glare in some locations. One of those places is where it intersects with an interstate and semi-regularly you'd see cars that had been in accidents or the remnants of same at the side of the road.

hitpointdrew 6y ago

Oh hell no. The late day light is WAY better than early day light. I am not going to mow my lawn at 5 a.m. and piss off all my neighbors (plus the grass tends to have dew and be wet early). Mowing my lawn at 7 pm (if it is still light out), is not a problem.

TimTheTinker 6y ago
Daylight time proponents are effectively advocating that the standard work day start an hour earlier relative to the sunlight. I tend to disagree - better to let people sleep. There's a reason "standard" time was set up that way in the first place. I suspect it works better with our circadian rhythm that way.
- thelean12 6y ago
  > I tend to disagree - better to let people sleep. I'm not advocating to move around the standard work day, but grown adults could just go to sleep an hour earlier. "let people sleep" makes no sense. It wouldn't take away an hour of their sleep.
  - TimTheTinker 6y ago
    This isn’t about “grown adults” and their capabilities. It’s about the well-being of society as a whole. There’s a lot more to consider than “when should working people show up for work”? Note that a significant portion of society doesn’t have a day job — kids, retired/elderly, caregivers & home-parents, disabled and unable to work, etc. In fact, the needs of these groups ought to be prioritized, since as you said, working adults can adapt.
- watwut 6y ago
  Adults are sleep deprived not because of sun, but because of evening activities - games, reading internet, movies. They value a bit more entertainment or a bit more work more then sleep. Half a year there is dark long before adults go to sleep and also dark in the morning. Sun is not preventing sleep, but people dont sleep.

UncleOxidant 6y ago

It's bad enough as it is in the northern latitudes where you wake up at about 5:15AM in June because the sun is already pretty bright. Keeping it on standard time would mean waking up at 4:15AM. Also, it's nice having more daylight after work.

tony101 6y ago
I have the opposite problem where I live. With DST the sun does not rise until 8 AM. In fact, in January, the sun rises here at 7:40 AM Standard Time. Which would be 8:40 AM Daylight Time. It would be terrible to have to wake up an hour before sunrise.

watwut 6y ago

No. Standard time is the worst one.

ghaff 6y ago

A lot depends on where you live. In Boston which is fairly northernly by US standards and very far east in a time zone, for example, staying on Eastern Standard Time year round would mean it's sunrise at about 4AM on the summer solstice and it gets dark at 8:30pm rather than 9:30pm like today. Now, these days, I have a lot of schedule flexibility and at least for activities I'm doing on my own I could just get up earlier in the summer. I'll be a bit out of sync with business schedules but I could largely do it.

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]

axaxs 6y ago

States can already make standard time permanent if they want to. Obviously, not many do. This change just allows states to make DST permanent.