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I cheat all the time on roguelike games to avoid permadeath. Permadeath games are designed to be as massive of a time sink as possible. "Oh, you invested 3 hou

by umvi 6y ago

I cheat all the time on roguelike games to avoid permadeath. Permadeath games are designed to be as massive of a time sink as possible. "Oh, you invested 3 hours getting to level 8? Well, you died - start all the way from the beginning again and sink another 3 hours to have a few minutes of practicing level 8 before you die again..." Screw that, I have a job and family, I don't have time to sink 100 hours to reach the end "legitimately" so I cheat and take away permadeath so that I can practice the endgame without the grind. For example, I saved a backup copy of the temporary save file in Teleglitch[0] to allow me to start at the beginning of level if I die instead of the very beginning of the game, and as a result I could practice the later levels without having to grind through first levels over and over. Imagine if you could only learn a piano piece by starting over from the beginning every time you mess up. It's absurd. The fastest way to master a piano piece is to practice the measure you are bad at until you have it down. I have no qualms cheating at video games that don't respect my time. [0] https://store.steampowered.com/app/234390/Teleglitch_Die_More_Edition/ https://store.steampowered.com/app/234390/Teleglitch_Die_Mor...

FooHentai 6y ago
Similar for me and the wife in minecraft - /gamerule keepInventory true every time. It’s not the kind of game I play for the challenge of staying alive, rather for the progression and development of base/gear/tech. Plus past mid game, there’s tools available to avoid death consequences anyway (totems etc). Always gotta be careful in the use of cheats, mods, and game modifiers that the underlying challenges and enjoyment in the game aren't sucked out. But careful use can take away pointless grind and turn an impractical time sink into something that fits enjoyment into a smaller amount of free time.
Sebb767 6y ago
It's absolutely fair if cheating makes your gaming experience more enjoyable - feel free to! But rogue-likes/perma-death games are definitely not trying to waste your time. Many games focus on replay to enjoy the game in a different way, try a different strategy, discover a different aspect - you name it! See, for example, Faster Than Light: There are so many hidden aspects and pathways and possibilities to play the game; if you mastered it on the first try you probably would never think it's that great. Or see Dwarf Fortress: It's simply fun to find out how the castle is going to go down this time. Sure, it's sad when your homie-dwarves get slaughtered by a gold dragon, but it let's you move on. Making your castle invincible destroys the fun and removes the feeling of success when you master a large castle or fend of a dragon. That's not to say your style is not okay - it's a single player game, do whatever you like! But I think "wasting time" or "absurd" is a blatant miss-characterization.
- umvi 6y ago
  Sure. But I think we've all played games where you keep having to replay the part you've mastered over and over just to get to the part you haven't mastered. It's like a multi-phase boss where you can do the first 2 phases with your eyes closed, but you die really fast on the 3rd phase because you haven't mastered it yet. The problem is when the first 2 phases take 10 minutes collectively. So basically you pay a time tax of 10 minutes, have a few precious seconds of practicing phase 3 before you die and have to pay another time tax. A lot of games (not just roguelikes) fall into this trap of having unavoidable time taxes. Games that are conscious of time taxes like Guitar Hero, Celeste, Crypt of the Necrodancer, etc., usually give you some sort of "practice mode" where you can practice the part you are stuck on without paying the time tax. It's games that uncompromisingly force you to pay time taxes that I cheat at.
  - MisterBastahrd 6y ago
    Yeah, they used to just be called "video games." I guess in Super Mario Bros. it was revolutionary that you could use warp zones to go down pipes, but you still had to get to them.

by umvi 6y ago

FooHentai 6y ago

Similar for me and the wife in minecraft - /gamerule keepInventory true every time. It’s not the kind of game I play for the challenge of staying alive, rather for the progression and development of base/gear/tech. Plus past mid game, there’s tools available to avoid death consequences anyway (totems etc). Always gotta be careful in the use of cheats, mods, and game modifiers that the underlying challenges and enjoyment in the game aren't sucked out. But careful use can take away pointless grind and turn an impractical time sink into something that fits enjoyment into a smaller amount of free time.

Sebb767 6y ago

It's absolutely fair if cheating makes your gaming experience more enjoyable - feel free to! But rogue-likes/perma-death games are definitely not trying to waste your time. Many games focus on replay to enjoy the game in a different way, try a different strategy, discover a different aspect - you name it! See, for example, Faster Than Light: There are so many hidden aspects and pathways and possibilities to play the game; if you mastered it on the first try you probably would never think it's that great. Or see Dwarf Fortress: It's simply fun to find out how the castle is going to go down this time. Sure, it's sad when your homie-dwarves get slaughtered by a gold dragon, but it let's you move on. Making your castle invincible destroys the fun and removes the feeling of success when you master a large castle or fend of a dragon. That's not to say your style is not okay - it's a single player game, do whatever you like! But I think "wasting time" or "absurd" is a blatant miss-characterization.

umvi 6y ago
Sure. But I think we've all played games where you keep having to replay the part you've mastered over and over just to get to the part you haven't mastered. It's like a multi-phase boss where you can do the first 2 phases with your eyes closed, but you die really fast on the 3rd phase because you haven't mastered it yet. The problem is when the first 2 phases take 10 minutes collectively. So basically you pay a time tax of 10 minutes, have a few precious seconds of practicing phase 3 before you die and have to pay another time tax. A lot of games (not just roguelikes) fall into this trap of having unavoidable time taxes. Games that are conscious of time taxes like Guitar Hero, Celeste, Crypt of the Necrodancer, etc., usually give you some sort of "practice mode" where you can practice the part you are stuck on without paying the time tax. It's games that uncompromisingly force you to pay time taxes that I cheat at.
- MisterBastahrd 6y ago
  Yeah, they used to just be called "video games." I guess in Super Mario Bros. it was revolutionary that you could use warp zones to go down pipes, but you still had to get to them.