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Quantitative finance where information density is of the utmost importance and our interest isn't in getting the most number of users, it's retaining the most s

by Kranar 6y ago

Quantitative finance where information density is of the utmost importance and our interest isn't in getting the most number of users, it's retaining the most skilled users. For our application we have many tables of data that are narrow in size, maybe two or three columns, and having a scrollbar constantly displayed takes up valuable screen real estate that could be used to display more tables. It's also a fallacy to think that because we optimize our application for 90% of users, that we end up losing 10% of them. People are not static automatons that make binary decisions about using your product strictly on the basis of how scrollbars function. People are fairly flexible and can adapt, get used to new things, and balance many different factors against one another when making choices.

mc32 6y ago
Interesting! This goes against the rule of thumb where if 5% of attendees are vegetarian you serve vegetarian and omnivores will adjust to it, while if you served the omnivore option the vegetarians would likely go hungry (more likely go find something else nearby if possible).
- Judgmentality 6y ago
  > This goes against the rule of thumb where if 5% of attendees are vegetarian you serve vegetarian and omnivores will adjust to it I've never heard this before. 5% sounds incredibly low, I would think it would need to be 25% before omnivores would be okay with it. If somewhere isn't serving meat, I don't want to be served there.
- Kranar 6y ago
  No because it's not as extreme as that. What you are talking about something that Taleb talks about which is a kind of minority rule [1] where for example kosher people will not eat food that isn't kosher, but non-kosher people will eat food that is kosher and so the end result is that Coca-cola, Pepsi, etc... all ensure their products are kosher even though only like 1 percent of their customers care about it. That is a very important principle in UI design and we certainly adhere to it and take it into account, but this has nothing to do with that. We're talking about scrollbars here, and unfortunately the people who prefer to always see a scrollbar are not going to ditch your product strictly on that one single criteria. [1] https://medium.com/incerto/the-most-intolerant-wins-the-dictatorship-of-the-small-minority-3f1f83ce4e15 https://medium.com/incerto/the-most-intolerant-wins-the-dict...
- throwaway894345 6y ago
  If the business is "restaurants", but if it's "programming language conferences" I don't think vegetarians are going to start picking up C++ because PyCon didn't have a vegetarian option. No one is picking software based on scrollbar preferences just like no one is picking software conferences based on their dietary restrictions.
TeMPOraL 6y ago
But unlike Apple or most other replies in this thread, your case has a valid justification: omitting scrollbar increases information density and usability, which are good things. I'm also guessing you train new users, so that there's no possibility they won't realize some table isn't scrollable just because there's no scrollbar.
- Kranar 6y ago
  We don't know Apple's justification for it but I wouldn't be surprised if their testing concluded something similar to ours... users don't depend on an always visible scrollbar to scroll.

by Kranar 6y ago

mc32 6y ago

Interesting! This goes against the rule of thumb where if 5% of attendees are vegetarian you serve vegetarian and omnivores will adjust to it, while if you served the omnivore option the vegetarians would likely go hungry (more likely go find something else nearby if possible).

Judgmentality 6y ago
> This goes against the rule of thumb where if 5% of attendees are vegetarian you serve vegetarian and omnivores will adjust to it I've never heard this before. 5% sounds incredibly low, I would think it would need to be 25% before omnivores would be okay with it. If somewhere isn't serving meat, I don't want to be served there.
Kranar 6y ago
No because it's not as extreme as that. What you are talking about something that Taleb talks about which is a kind of minority rule [1] where for example kosher people will not eat food that isn't kosher, but non-kosher people will eat food that is kosher and so the end result is that Coca-cola, Pepsi, etc... all ensure their products are kosher even though only like 1 percent of their customers care about it. That is a very important principle in UI design and we certainly adhere to it and take it into account, but this has nothing to do with that. We're talking about scrollbars here, and unfortunately the people who prefer to always see a scrollbar are not going to ditch your product strictly on that one single criteria. [1] https://medium.com/incerto/the-most-intolerant-wins-the-dictatorship-of-the-small-minority-3f1f83ce4e15 https://medium.com/incerto/the-most-intolerant-wins-the-dict...
throwaway894345 6y ago
If the business is "restaurants", but if it's "programming language conferences" I don't think vegetarians are going to start picking up C++ because PyCon didn't have a vegetarian option. No one is picking software based on scrollbar preferences just like no one is picking software conferences based on their dietary restrictions.

TeMPOraL 6y ago

But unlike Apple or most other replies in this thread, your case has a valid justification: omitting scrollbar increases information density and usability, which are good things. I'm also guessing you train new users, so that there's no possibility they won't realize some table isn't scrollable just because there's no scrollbar.

Kranar 6y ago
We don't know Apple's justification for it but I wouldn't be surprised if their testing concluded something similar to ours... users don't depend on an always visible scrollbar to scroll.