4 ms·

Sorry I do not understand your point, nobody is forced to buy a phone or car each year, the difference is that I can change the lights on my car with an "unoffi

Sorry I do not understand your point, nobody is forced to buy a phone or car each year, the difference is that I can change the lights on my car with an "unofficial" part if I want without Ford complaining that I am a pirate and trying to void my engine warranty. I have all the possible options with my car: - go to a Ford shop and have them do it for me - go to a reputable website and browse all compatible parts and decide if I want something more e pensive or something more cheap - when I have the part I can install it myself, a friend or a professional that is not a "Ford" genius. Ford would love to force me to buy only from them parts, oils, fuel and only repair or do maintenance on their shops but fortunately they can't force us. (but you have the choice to use only Ford blessed products and people). For stolen cars there are serial numbers printed on the car engine and body parts to make it more difficult for thieves but sure it still happens and I am for doing more to prevent crime and finding the criminals but doing exactly what Ford would like and is bad for society and environment is clearly a bad thing IMO.

zepto 6y ago
We aren’t talking about cars. As I said earlier, they aren’t a valid comparison. Computers and cars are quite different in their components, and life cycle.
- simion314 6y ago
  I disagree. But let me know how do you define the line where this electronics should be repairable and the other ones should be DRM locked.
  - zepto 6y ago
    Personally I think the user should choose whether to buy a secure product or not. I have some open hardware for certain projects, but I am very happy to use Apple products for things like banking and various tasks concerning personal data. I’m also happy to recommend that non-technical friends use Apple products knowing that the ways that can harm themselves are limited. I think a lot of people would take a device to a repair kiosk, not understanding the risks, wrongly assuming that they would have some kind of consumer protection. You aren’t forced to buy an iPhone if you don’t want this.
    - simion314 6y ago
      >You aren’t forced to buy an iPhone if you don’t want this. Other Android devices are also similarly bad to repair, with a locked Store and few have an supported way to actually root them. The mobile market is not as diverse like car market or say web/cloud hosting market. We can't give Apple or Samsung an exception from warranty laws because "the user should buy X that offers warranty" , free market only works only if all the free market assumptions hold true.
      - zepto 6y ago
        > with a locked Store and few have an supported way to actually root them This has nothing to do with repairability. > We can't give Apple or Samsung an exception from warranty laws We don’t, so it’s not clear why you’re even saying this.
        simion314 6y ago
        >We don’t, so it’s not clear why you’re even saying this. Because you demanded the user should chose if the wants a product with the "repairable" feature , so I assume your logic should be consistent and you would also like to have the option to say pay less and get an iPhone with no warranty. For some reasons we force warranty and IMO for the exact same reason we should for basic repair ability ( diagnostic software,schematics, parts and ability to remove the DRM) I hope this is more clear, we can talk about tractors or fridges so we can avoid the Apple bias.
        zepto 6y ago
        > so I assume your logic should be consistent and you would also like to have the option to say pay less and get an iPhone with no warranty. What did I say that has anything to do with warranties? > For some reasons we force warranty This is just false. We don’t force warranties. Companies are free to sell products without warranties. Customers generally prefer warranties so companies provide them. > and IMO for the exact same reason we should for basic repair ability ( diagnostic software,schematics, parts and ability to remove the DRM) I hope this is more clear, It’s clear that your analogy is false. Customers want warranties so they choose products which have them. You mentioned earlier that android devices are as bad to repair, but that isn’t true either: https://www.fairphone.com/en/ https://www.fairphone.com/en/ If customers want repairability they can have it. No need to force apple to do anything. > we can talk about tractors or fridges so we can avoid the Apple bias. Tractors and fridges are not like computers, this is a silly analogy.

zepto 6y ago

We aren’t talking about cars. As I said earlier, they aren’t a valid comparison. Computers and cars are quite different in their components, and life cycle.

simion314 6y ago
I disagree. But let me know how do you define the line where this electronics should be repairable and the other ones should be DRM locked.
- zepto 6y ago
  Personally I think the user should choose whether to buy a secure product or not. I have some open hardware for certain projects, but I am very happy to use Apple products for things like banking and various tasks concerning personal data. I’m also happy to recommend that non-technical friends use Apple products knowing that the ways that can harm themselves are limited. I think a lot of people would take a device to a repair kiosk, not understanding the risks, wrongly assuming that they would have some kind of consumer protection. You aren’t forced to buy an iPhone if you don’t want this.
  - simion314 6y ago
    >You aren’t forced to buy an iPhone if you don’t want this. Other Android devices are also similarly bad to repair, with a locked Store and few have an supported way to actually root them. The mobile market is not as diverse like car market or say web/cloud hosting market. We can't give Apple or Samsung an exception from warranty laws because "the user should buy X that offers warranty" , free market only works only if all the free market assumptions hold true.
    - zepto 6y ago
      > with a locked Store and few have an supported way to actually root them This has nothing to do with repairability. > We can't give Apple or Samsung an exception from warranty laws We don’t, so it’s not clear why you’re even saying this.
      - simion314 6y ago
        >We don’t, so it’s not clear why you’re even saying this. Because you demanded the user should chose if the wants a product with the "repairable" feature , so I assume your logic should be consistent and you would also like to have the option to say pay less and get an iPhone with no warranty. For some reasons we force warranty and IMO for the exact same reason we should for basic repair ability ( diagnostic software,schematics, parts and ability to remove the DRM) I hope this is more clear, we can talk about tractors or fridges so we can avoid the Apple bias.
        zepto 6y ago
        > so I assume your logic should be consistent and you would also like to have the option to say pay less and get an iPhone with no warranty. What did I say that has anything to do with warranties? > For some reasons we force warranty This is just false. We don’t force warranties. Companies are free to sell products without warranties. Customers generally prefer warranties so companies provide them. > and IMO for the exact same reason we should for basic repair ability ( diagnostic software,schematics, parts and ability to remove the DRM) I hope this is more clear, It’s clear that your analogy is false. Customers want warranties so they choose products which have them. You mentioned earlier that android devices are as bad to repair, but that isn’t true either: https://www.fairphone.com/en/ https://www.fairphone.com/en/ If customers want repairability they can have it. No need to force apple to do anything. > we can talk about tractors or fridges so we can avoid the Apple bias. Tractors and fridges are not like computers, this is a silly analogy.