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This. I can do programming problems in Java, but I definitely can't lead a team doing a Java project. I don't what Gradle/Maven/etc really are. I don't have yea

This. I can do programming problems in Java, but I definitely can't lead a team doing a Java project. I don't what Gradle/Maven/etc really are. I don't have years of experience with how libraries, the API request pipeline, middleware, etc work. I don't know little tricks / nuanaces, like the fact that Visual Studio has to be restarted for local code to pick up new environment variables, why String and string are the same thing, etc, etc, etc.

soperj 6y ago
Gradle & Maven are just build tools. They can be used for other stuff, but that's what they're mostly used for in my experience.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- faceplanted 6y ago
  I actually find the things _around_ the languages like build tools and ansible and such by far the more confusing parts of dev work just because I never know which of them I should spend time trying to understand and if I just want a runthrough for someone who can already program I never know where to look.
  - mike00632 6y ago
    Gradle, CMake, Python virtual environments...
  - soperj 6y ago
    When I started developing I felt the same way. One day I finally decided that maven was going to be around long enough (and I was going to be a java dev long enough) to spend some time learning. It didn't take long, couple days at most, man has it saved me a lot of grief over the years. CSS was the same, although it took longer than a couple of days, it has been more than worth it.
  - AtlasBarfed 6y ago
    Lots of new languages that arose in reflex to the "stack complexity" of Java ... eventually achieved the same stack complexity with a totally different set of framework/tool names. Ruby/Rails in particular became this. Javascript rocketed to this complexity level, with the added chaos of seemingly reinventing the entire toolchains every 2 years.
    - soperj 6y ago
      yeah, i never understood that part. People wanting to use javascript on the backend, but not having any of those tools. They exist for a reason, and it's not to make things more complicated.
      - AtlasBarfed 6y ago
        IMO the tools that have been created to fill the gaps seem to be poor imitations of dotNet, rails, and java frameworks. The testing framework I saw in a React app were almost straight from java, but somehow (despite JS being more flexible and script) MUCH uglier.

soperj 6y ago

Gradle & Maven are just build tools. They can be used for other stuff, but that's what they're mostly used for in my experience.

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
faceplanted 6y ago
I actually find the things _around_ the languages like build tools and ansible and such by far the more confusing parts of dev work just because I never know which of them I should spend time trying to understand and if I just want a runthrough for someone who can already program I never know where to look.
- mike00632 6y ago
  Gradle, CMake, Python virtual environments...
- soperj 6y ago
  When I started developing I felt the same way. One day I finally decided that maven was going to be around long enough (and I was going to be a java dev long enough) to spend some time learning. It didn't take long, couple days at most, man has it saved me a lot of grief over the years. CSS was the same, although it took longer than a couple of days, it has been more than worth it.
- AtlasBarfed 6y ago
  Lots of new languages that arose in reflex to the "stack complexity" of Java ... eventually achieved the same stack complexity with a totally different set of framework/tool names. Ruby/Rails in particular became this. Javascript rocketed to this complexity level, with the added chaos of seemingly reinventing the entire toolchains every 2 years.
  - soperj 6y ago
    yeah, i never understood that part. People wanting to use javascript on the backend, but not having any of those tools. They exist for a reason, and it's not to make things more complicated.
    - AtlasBarfed 6y ago
      IMO the tools that have been created to fill the gaps seem to be poor imitations of dotNet, rails, and java frameworks. The testing framework I saw in a React app were almost straight from java, but somehow (despite JS being more flexible and script) MUCH uglier.