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Incidentally, did you manage to find a career in a field where things aren't oversold in the pursuit of popular enthusiasm? It seems a fundamental component of

by DanI-S 15y ago

Incidentally, did you manage to find a career in a field where things aren't oversold in the pursuit of popular enthusiasm? It seems a fundamental component of capitalism, if not human enterprise in general.

deleted 15y ago
[deleted]
andrewcooke 15y ago
sorry, previous reply mis-understood your question. this is the same point as the pressure for jobs, really. it's not that astronomy is the only place where things are oversold, or where there's a lot of competition for jobs - it's a question of degree. in the case of astronomy it doesn't produce much at all of quantifiable physical value. it's not that different to poetry (you can make the same "life-affirming" arguments for both). in contrast, car mechanics, say, do something physically useful: they fix your car and you're willing to pay them for that. so astronomers and poets are, largely, state funded (through science and arts grants, respectively). you could, i guess, argue that a car mechanic who places an advert in the local paper is also relying on "over-selling". sure. but i hope you'll agree there's a difference in degree between the two cases: the mechanic is, say, 90% useful, 10% "ephemeral"; astronomy is 99% "ephemeral" [edit: made phrasing less abrasive]. in modern universities, most depts have a range of sources of funding. it's very unusual for astronomy depts to have links with industry because they don't produce anything that people want (there are engineering-related exceptions for optics and detectors). the way they get money is by being cool and hoping to appear attractive to rich donors (or the govt). hence the reliance on "advertising". ps and to reply directly: yes; i now work on projects that help save people's lives.
- DanI-S 15y ago
  I'd argue that astronomy does save lives! It does it through inspiring people to become more educated, and giving them a greater perspective on the nature of our world. Hopefully, that helps limit future conflict, warfare and environmental destruction. This is probably not as direct as what you do now, though. I am glad you have found something that works better for you :)
- gammarator 15y ago
  Speaking as someone who has also wished at times to make a more immediate, tangible impact on the world around me, I'm glad you're liking your new job. That said, even "ephemeral" things have value. Individuals will buy poetry books, for instance! You seem to be saying that, since one can't persuade the average person on the street to pay you to write a research paper[1], the research that gets done is "over-sold" through "advertising." In other words, the work is funded not on its own merits, but as a popularity contest. I'd argue, though, even within astrophysics alone, some research is more important than others: maybe it answers more fundamental questions, or could enable a unifying explanatory framework for a broader class of phenomena, or is actually of near-term importance to us on Earth (asteroid location, space weather). Science is a human endeavor. Yes, there is often hype and trends as people advocate for funding for their next big thing--but there's a lot of that here on Hacker News, too.

by DanI-S 15y ago

deleted 15y ago

[deleted]

andrewcooke 15y ago

sorry, previous reply mis-understood your question. this is the same point as the pressure for jobs, really. it's not that astronomy is the only place where things are oversold, or where there's a lot of competition for jobs - it's a question of degree. in the case of astronomy it doesn't produce much at all of quantifiable physical value. it's not that different to poetry (you can make the same "life-affirming" arguments for both). in contrast, car mechanics, say, do something physically useful: they fix your car and you're willing to pay them for that. so astronomers and poets are, largely, state funded (through science and arts grants, respectively). you could, i guess, argue that a car mechanic who places an advert in the local paper is also relying on "over-selling". sure. but i hope you'll agree there's a difference in degree between the two cases: the mechanic is, say, 90% useful, 10% "ephemeral"; astronomy is 99% "ephemeral" [edit: made phrasing less abrasive]. in modern universities, most depts have a range of sources of funding. it's very unusual for astronomy depts to have links with industry because they don't produce anything that people want (there are engineering-related exceptions for optics and detectors). the way they get money is by being cool and hoping to appear attractive to rich donors (or the govt). hence the reliance on "advertising". ps and to reply directly: yes; i now work on projects that help save people's lives.

DanI-S 15y ago
I'd argue that astronomy does save lives! It does it through inspiring people to become more educated, and giving them a greater perspective on the nature of our world. Hopefully, that helps limit future conflict, warfare and environmental destruction. This is probably not as direct as what you do now, though. I am glad you have found something that works better for you :)
gammarator 15y ago
Speaking as someone who has also wished at times to make a more immediate, tangible impact on the world around me, I'm glad you're liking your new job. That said, even "ephemeral" things have value. Individuals will buy poetry books, for instance! You seem to be saying that, since one can't persuade the average person on the street to pay you to write a research paper[1], the research that gets done is "over-sold" through "advertising." In other words, the work is funded not on its own merits, but as a popularity contest. I'd argue, though, even within astrophysics alone, some research is more important than others: maybe it answers more fundamental questions, or could enable a unifying explanatory framework for a broader class of phenomena, or is actually of near-term importance to us on Earth (asteroid location, space weather). Science is a human endeavor. Yes, there is often hype and trends as people advocate for funding for their next big thing--but there's a lot of that here on Hacker News, too.