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I highly recommend the book "Six Frigates" by Ian Toll that talks about this time period. It's a highly readable and interesting story of the US' at the time ti

by davidw 6y ago

I highly recommend the book "Six Frigates" by Ian Toll that talks about this time period. It's a highly readable and interesting story of the US' at the time tiny navy, that actually did very well for itself in the war of 1812 against the dominant naval power of the day. His other books are well-written and informative as well.

Shivetya 6y ago
not to take away from the book or the people who served in the Navy at the time but one of the largest strategic benefits the United States has/had are oceans on both sides separating it from hostile powers. this advantage of course dropped away in the age of missiles and jets but it still has many benefits to this day.
- HDMI_Cable 6y ago
  I’m not sure the pacific mattered all that much during the war of 1812. Even with jets and missiles, the two oceans still prevent anyone from landing troops on American shores.
- throwanem 6y ago
  Not that you're exactly wrong, but I would argue that advantage meant more, not less, as time went on. In both World Wars it granted the US mainland the insuperable strategic advantage of being effectively impossible to attack in any meaningful way - not so much, though, in the days when the Royal Navy still bestrode the world.
- Dirlewanger 6y ago
  That, and the Monroe Doctrine, which was basically a massive bluff saying "don't fuck with us over here", really helped the early US. I'd argue that for much of the antebellum period, if a European foe was dedicated enough, they could have seriously fucked with the early US enough to alter the course of history.
- davidw 6y ago
  Trade was pretty important to the US, and the British instituted a naval blockade: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_of_1812#Blockade https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_of_1812#Blockade
gerikson 6y ago
For an entertaining fictional account (from the British side) I can recommend Patrick O'Brian's The Fortune of War (and the subsequent The Surgeon's Mate, although only the first part deals with the war of 1812).
- jaegerpicker 6y ago
  I'd recommend the whole series as it's really excellent!
  - gerikson 6y ago
    Of course, I've re-read it at least 5 times ;) 20+ books does seem like a big commitment but once you're hooked you just want more...
throwanem 6y ago
I appreciate the recommendation! I'd add another recommendation, too, for anyone interested in that period of naval history - specifically, when it becomes reasonable to do so again, I'd recommend visiting both Constitution in Boston, and Constellation here in Baltimore. Constitution is the last surviving of the "six original frigates" referenced in Toll's title, and the oldest ship in the world still in commission; one of Constitution's sisters was the original Constellation, and her second-generation namesake here in Baltimore represents the final evolution of the design to which Constitution and her sisters were built. Naval warfare in the Age of Sail is a minor interest of mine, enough so that I've read a good deal about it and even written a little. But nothing else I've found has given me the same sense of what those ships really were than walking their decks and being in their spaces has done. Granted, even that isn't "real", in that visiting a museum can't possibly give a true sense of what it's like to serve or even go to sea aboard one of these ships in her time of greatness. But, short of signing aboard as a mate with one of the museums whose ships do still sail, I think visiting these ships is about as close as anyone can expect to come - and, either way, it's very much worth doing in its own right, for anyone who shares the interest.
- jaegerpicker 6y ago
  I'd also recommend Old Fort Niagra and the US Niagra on Lake Erie/Ontario. Also read about Oliver Hazard Perry and the Battle of Lake Erie. I believe it's still the largest recorded fresh water naval battle in history and quite a great story. Also if you are visiting the Constitution in Boston I'd highly recommend the Boston Tea Party Museum and Ships. It's a slightly earlier period obviously but it was a fantastic experience IMO and walking the working ships there was great. Like you the Age of sail and especially the Napoleonic Wars and the War of 1812 are interests of mine. My interest started after reading the Aubrey/Maturin series which I can't possibly recommend highly enough. I agree with you walking the decks or walls of the forts is irreplaceable if you are in to the history.
- 5555624 6y ago
  >But, short of signing aboard as a mate with one of the museums whose ships do still sail, I think visiting these ships is about as close as anyone can expect to come - and, either way, it's very much worth doing in its own right, for anyone who shares the interest. Even then, on a museum ship, you're probably not going to be woken up, in the middle of the night, in the middle of the Atlantic, to furl sails due to a storm. (Summer 1981, on the USCGC Eagle.)
gbourne 6y ago
Great recommendation - just picked up the audio version.
Ancapistani 6y ago
In that vein, I'd recommend "Give Me a Fast Ship" by Tim McGrath, which outlines the formation of the US Navy during the American Revolution - it's basically the story of how we came to the position we were in when 1812 rolled around.

by davidw 6y ago

Shivetya 6y ago

not to take away from the book or the people who served in the Navy at the time but one of the largest strategic benefits the United States has/had are oceans on both sides separating it from hostile powers. this advantage of course dropped away in the age of missiles and jets but it still has many benefits to this day.

HDMI_Cable 6y ago
I’m not sure the pacific mattered all that much during the war of 1812. Even with jets and missiles, the two oceans still prevent anyone from landing troops on American shores.
throwanem 6y ago
Not that you're exactly wrong, but I would argue that advantage meant more, not less, as time went on. In both World Wars it granted the US mainland the insuperable strategic advantage of being effectively impossible to attack in any meaningful way - not so much, though, in the days when the Royal Navy still bestrode the world.
Dirlewanger 6y ago
That, and the Monroe Doctrine, which was basically a massive bluff saying "don't fuck with us over here", really helped the early US. I'd argue that for much of the antebellum period, if a European foe was dedicated enough, they could have seriously fucked with the early US enough to alter the course of history.
davidw 6y ago
Trade was pretty important to the US, and the British instituted a naval blockade: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_of_1812#Blockade https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_of_1812#Blockade

gerikson 6y ago

For an entertaining fictional account (from the British side) I can recommend Patrick O'Brian's The Fortune of War (and the subsequent The Surgeon's Mate, although only the first part deals with the war of 1812).

jaegerpicker 6y ago
I'd recommend the whole series as it's really excellent!
- gerikson 6y ago
  Of course, I've re-read it at least 5 times ;) 20+ books does seem like a big commitment but once you're hooked you just want more...

throwanem 6y ago

I appreciate the recommendation! I'd add another recommendation, too, for anyone interested in that period of naval history - specifically, when it becomes reasonable to do so again, I'd recommend visiting both Constitution in Boston, and Constellation here in Baltimore. Constitution is the last surviving of the "six original frigates" referenced in Toll's title, and the oldest ship in the world still in commission; one of Constitution's sisters was the original Constellation, and her second-generation namesake here in Baltimore represents the final evolution of the design to which Constitution and her sisters were built. Naval warfare in the Age of Sail is a minor interest of mine, enough so that I've read a good deal about it and even written a little. But nothing else I've found has given me the same sense of what those ships really were than walking their decks and being in their spaces has done. Granted, even that isn't "real", in that visiting a museum can't possibly give a true sense of what it's like to serve or even go to sea aboard one of these ships in her time of greatness. But, short of signing aboard as a mate with one of the museums whose ships do still sail, I think visiting these ships is about as close as anyone can expect to come - and, either way, it's very much worth doing in its own right, for anyone who shares the interest.

jaegerpicker 6y ago
I'd also recommend Old Fort Niagra and the US Niagra on Lake Erie/Ontario. Also read about Oliver Hazard Perry and the Battle of Lake Erie. I believe it's still the largest recorded fresh water naval battle in history and quite a great story. Also if you are visiting the Constitution in Boston I'd highly recommend the Boston Tea Party Museum and Ships. It's a slightly earlier period obviously but it was a fantastic experience IMO and walking the working ships there was great. Like you the Age of sail and especially the Napoleonic Wars and the War of 1812 are interests of mine. My interest started after reading the Aubrey/Maturin series which I can't possibly recommend highly enough. I agree with you walking the decks or walls of the forts is irreplaceable if you are in to the history.
5555624 6y ago
>But, short of signing aboard as a mate with one of the museums whose ships do still sail, I think visiting these ships is about as close as anyone can expect to come - and, either way, it's very much worth doing in its own right, for anyone who shares the interest. Even then, on a museum ship, you're probably not going to be woken up, in the middle of the night, in the middle of the Atlantic, to furl sails due to a storm. (Summer 1981, on the USCGC Eagle.)

gbourne 6y ago

Great recommendation - just picked up the audio version.

Ancapistani 6y ago

In that vein, I'd recommend "Give Me a Fast Ship" by Tim McGrath, which outlines the formation of the US Navy during the American Revolution - it's basically the story of how we came to the position we were in when 1812 rolled around.