5 ms·

How is abiding to the U.S. law, where Google/YouTube is incorporated a "risky move"? It's not like there is a choice. https://support.google.com/youtube/thread

by yoz-y 6y ago

How is abiding to the U.S. law, where Google/YouTube is incorporated a "risky move"? It's not like there is a choice. https://support.google.com/youtube/thread/101463270?hl=en https://support.google.com/youtube/thread/101463270?hl=en

bilbo0s 6y ago
I thought that was a strange phrasing as well? Since when is YouTube more powerful than national governments? People seem to be under some confusion as to how business works. The governments tell YouTube what YouTube has to do to operate in their jurisdiction, and YouTube either does it, or leaves that jurisdiction. If Togo made the demand, you can leave. If the US or Germany make the demand, you say, "Right away sirs", and you start collecting their taxes.
- Isinlor 6y ago
  Then I guess EU should do the same. Americans on YouTube should pay taxes in EU on EU ad views or YouTube should leave EU. But I think in practice EU is thinking more in direction of simply taxing global profits of tech giants.
  - systemvoltage 6y ago
    Tax global income of a company not based in EU for doing business in the EU? Is that what you mean?
    - Isinlor 6y ago
      Yes, EU seems to be looking to establish rules to determine how much profit a company generated in the EU and tax that [0]. > The new rules will also change how profits are allocated to Member States in a way which better reflects how companies can create value online: for example, depending on where the user is based at the time of consumption. Seems like currently EU is in the process of public consultations on a new digital taxation [1]. I'm not sure how the details changed since the proposal, or where they will go. But EU is certainly moving on it. [0] https://ec.europa.eu/taxation_customs/business/company-tax/fair-taxation-digital-economy_en https://ec.europa.eu/taxation_customs/business/company-tax/f... [1] https://ec.europa.eu/info/law/better-regulation/have-your-say/initiatives/12836-Digital-Levy https://ec.europa.eu/info/law/better-regulation/have-your-sa...
melomal 6y ago
Remote workers will be screwed then. I've worked for companies incorporated in Switzerland and I live in Poland, why on earth would that make sense to pay Swiss tax if I live and work in PL? Also Alphabet is a Delaware incorporated company - tax haven, plus there's the good ol' tax haven of Dublin that FANGs love and Google is located in, like Facebook, Amazon, insert other multi-billion turnover company. For anyone interested in Ireland's tax loopholes: https://www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/explainer-google-and-its-double-irish-tax-scheme-1.4128929 https://www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/explainer-google...
- sokoloff 6y ago
  Many companies are incorporated in Delaware because it has a highly functioning secretary of state and court system. It's not at all a tax haven, having a state corporate tax rate that's around the 6th highest of the 50 states.
  - D13Fd 6y ago
    This. You incorporate in Delaware not because it's a tax haven, but because they have the most developed corporate law of any state, and the chancellor/vice chancellors on the Delaware Court of Chancery are without a doubt among the best judges on corporate issues that you will find anywhere in the world.
    - melomal 6y ago
      > most developed corporate law of any state Honestly this just sounds like the old Swiss tax rules of 'we never disclose your details, even to the feds'.
      - kube-system 6y ago
        No, it's nothing like that. Businesses like Delaware because they can easily hire lawyers that know Delaware law, and those lawyers can say with a good degree of certainty that the law means X or Y, because many businesses before them have already settled the case law there. This is not the case for every state. In some states, your specific business legal concern might be something that is not clearly outlined under the text of the law, and there may be a complete lack of case law to guide your lawyer. TL;DR: lawyers in Delaware are more likely to answer "yes" or "no" rather than "maybe" to your business law question.
bitcharmer 6y ago
Isn't Google conveniently abiding to Chinese law in China as well? How does your logic work?
- systemvoltage 6y ago
  Except that Google is an American company.
  - bitcharmer 6y ago
    OP just argued that the reason why Google abides to US law is because it's a US company. Their actions however show they abide to whichever laws are more convenient for them.
    - systemvoltage 6y ago
      That makes sense to me. Which actions show they’re violating any law in any country?
    - yoz-y 6y ago
      What's the problem with my logic? Google has to abide the law of countries with which it does business. Abiding laws is not a "convenience", it's something you just do. If you don't you get fined: e.g.: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-france-tech-google-tax-idUSKCN1VX1SM https://www.reuters.com/article/us-france-tech-google-tax-id... The problem with Google being an American company in this case is that maybe you can pull out of China or Australia if the law becomes too cumbersome, but pulling out of the country you are based in is an order of magnitude harder. I feel that you have interpreted my sentence in the worst possible light, but ok.
sudosysgen 6y ago
Google is a multinational, they have a subsidiary in almost every single country. If they wanted, they could operate the local YouTube creator services under every jurisdiction not to charge this tax, and may very well be forced to.
jpambrun 6y ago
It might be a surprise to you, but most of us aren't fond of being subjected to foreign laws. Other gouvernement will take notice.

by yoz-y 6y ago

bilbo0s 6y ago

I thought that was a strange phrasing as well? Since when is YouTube more powerful than national governments? People seem to be under some confusion as to how business works. The governments tell YouTube what YouTube has to do to operate in their jurisdiction, and YouTube either does it, or leaves that jurisdiction. If Togo made the demand, you can leave. If the US or Germany make the demand, you say, "Right away sirs", and you start collecting their taxes.

Isinlor 6y ago
Then I guess EU should do the same. Americans on YouTube should pay taxes in EU on EU ad views or YouTube should leave EU. But I think in practice EU is thinking more in direction of simply taxing global profits of tech giants.
- systemvoltage 6y ago
  Tax global income of a company not based in EU for doing business in the EU? Is that what you mean?
  - Isinlor 6y ago
    Yes, EU seems to be looking to establish rules to determine how much profit a company generated in the EU and tax that [0]. > The new rules will also change how profits are allocated to Member States in a way which better reflects how companies can create value online: for example, depending on where the user is based at the time of consumption. Seems like currently EU is in the process of public consultations on a new digital taxation [1]. I'm not sure how the details changed since the proposal, or where they will go. But EU is certainly moving on it. [0] https://ec.europa.eu/taxation_customs/business/company-tax/fair-taxation-digital-economy_en https://ec.europa.eu/taxation_customs/business/company-tax/f... [1] https://ec.europa.eu/info/law/better-regulation/have-your-say/initiatives/12836-Digital-Levy https://ec.europa.eu/info/law/better-regulation/have-your-sa...

melomal 6y ago

Remote workers will be screwed then. I've worked for companies incorporated in Switzerland and I live in Poland, why on earth would that make sense to pay Swiss tax if I live and work in PL? Also Alphabet is a Delaware incorporated company - tax haven, plus there's the good ol' tax haven of Dublin that FANGs love and Google is located in, like Facebook, Amazon, insert other multi-billion turnover company. For anyone interested in Ireland's tax loopholes: https://www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/explainer-google-and-its-double-irish-tax-scheme-1.4128929 https://www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/explainer-google...

sokoloff 6y ago
Many companies are incorporated in Delaware because it has a highly functioning secretary of state and court system. It's not at all a tax haven, having a state corporate tax rate that's around the 6th highest of the 50 states.
- D13Fd 6y ago
  This. You incorporate in Delaware not because it's a tax haven, but because they have the most developed corporate law of any state, and the chancellor/vice chancellors on the Delaware Court of Chancery are without a doubt among the best judges on corporate issues that you will find anywhere in the world.
  - melomal 6y ago
    > most developed corporate law of any state Honestly this just sounds like the old Swiss tax rules of 'we never disclose your details, even to the feds'.
    - kube-system 6y ago
      No, it's nothing like that. Businesses like Delaware because they can easily hire lawyers that know Delaware law, and those lawyers can say with a good degree of certainty that the law means X or Y, because many businesses before them have already settled the case law there. This is not the case for every state. In some states, your specific business legal concern might be something that is not clearly outlined under the text of the law, and there may be a complete lack of case law to guide your lawyer. TL;DR: lawyers in Delaware are more likely to answer "yes" or "no" rather than "maybe" to your business law question.

bitcharmer 6y ago

Isn't Google conveniently abiding to Chinese law in China as well? How does your logic work?

systemvoltage 6y ago
Except that Google is an American company.
- bitcharmer 6y ago
  OP just argued that the reason why Google abides to US law is because it's a US company. Their actions however show they abide to whichever laws are more convenient for them.
  - systemvoltage 6y ago
    That makes sense to me. Which actions show they’re violating any law in any country?
  - yoz-y 6y ago
    What's the problem with my logic? Google has to abide the law of countries with which it does business. Abiding laws is not a "convenience", it's something you just do. If you don't you get fined: e.g.: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-france-tech-google-tax-idUSKCN1VX1SM https://www.reuters.com/article/us-france-tech-google-tax-id... The problem with Google being an American company in this case is that maybe you can pull out of China or Australia if the law becomes too cumbersome, but pulling out of the country you are based in is an order of magnitude harder. I feel that you have interpreted my sentence in the worst possible light, but ok.

sudosysgen 6y ago

Google is a multinational, they have a subsidiary in almost every single country. If they wanted, they could operate the local YouTube creator services under every jurisdiction not to charge this tax, and may very well be forced to.

jpambrun 6y ago

It might be a surprise to you, but most of us aren't fond of being subjected to foreign laws. Other gouvernement will take notice.