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Eh, as someone with a degree in philosophy, it’s this sort of overanalysis that has led to the field’s sidelining. The so-called folk wisdom stated by the dying

Eh, as someone with a degree in philosophy, it’s this sort of overanalysis that has led to the field’s sidelining. The so-called folk wisdom stated by the dying might not be logically rigorous, but it’s a perspective that we would do well to remember. Being trite or simple doesn’t make something wrong. My own personal theory is that the deathbed perspective is quite similar to the childhood one: without the constraints of life placed upon us by social pressures and resource acquisition, we have an easier time realizing what is actually important.

phkahler 6y ago
What about this. Ask a person right now, what would they do if the knew they only had a week to live. Or if they had plenty of money and no obligations. This seems to help getting at parts of life they are neglecting. But not everyone is good at hypotheticals. Maybe that's why we put more weight on the deathbed words - the situation is very real?
- keiferski 6y ago
  Yeah, that’s a good point too. We all live in a mental projection of the future, where we have essentially endless time ahead of us. People without the luxury of that illusion usually have insightful things to say.
- bluGill 6y ago
  If I knew I only had a week to live, then I'll max out my credit cards, liquidate my retirement plans, and have a great vacation. This has nothing to do with my values though. I'd rather spend the week working on my antique collections, but the custom parts I need for the next step won't arrive in less than a week if I ordered them today. Those parts are too expensive to pay cash for without saving up for them, since I believe the long run is more than 10 years I'm better off saving up for those parts instead of taking our a loan.
Iv 6y ago
Deathbeds are where people have maximum experience and low incentive to lie. Nothing magical. Louis XIV saying "I loved war too much" on his deathbed gives a perspective to his life achievements.
- keiferski 6y ago
  There is plenty of incentive to lie on your deathbed. A lot of people spend their entire lives worrying about how they’ll be remembered.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
  - thesteamboat 6y ago
    But crucially, the incentives are different than those people have in the middle of their lives. Most people's usual incentives lead to them optimizing for the short-to-medium term future, i.e. the next couple of months or years. People on their deathbed will optimize either for the extremely short term (finishing this conversation) or the extremely long term (the last chance to affect how they'll be remembered). This suggests that if people lie on their death bed, they'll lie in different ways than ordinarily. Even if you can't take deathbed statements as unvarnished truth, their differences from everyday statements can be revealing.
  - jjk166 6y ago
    For the dying, caring about other's perception is a luxury. For the living, it is a necessity. Any incentive to lie on your death bed is irrationally self imposed, which is not to say that it doesn't happen but that it doesn't have to.
- JoeAltmaier 6y ago
  People lie. On their deathbeds with the sense of impending finality they will do their damndest to come up with anything at all to feel better. Lie to God (I'll convert! I'll be a better person!), lie to their spouse (I was always faithful, and always loved you!), lie to themselves (It's not that bad! I'll live.) Pack any situation with emotion and adrenaline, you'll get world-class mental gymnastics. Look at the exceptional efforts even animals put out when mortally threatened. The burst of energy and struggle seems like it would be epic. Including struggling with the truth.
bittercynic 6y ago
I don't think this necessarily diminishes the importance of the deathbed perspective - many people apply pressure to themselves to seek status or resources far beyond what is required for a fulfilling life, and finding a way do loosen the grip that has on you could be a good thing for many.
pwinnski 6y ago
That people on their deathbeds do not think of their legacy seems naive. Maybe people realize what's actually important, or maybe people fantasize about impossibilities in an effort to make themselves look good, in contrast to how they lived.
oleander73 6y ago
I agree. I was diagnosed with an incurable illness last year and retired after that and I feel much more free to just say whatever I want and not worry about what people think about it.
_pastel 6y ago
It's not the overthinking part of this essay that reflects poorly on the field of philosophy. It's the complete lack of interest in evidence. > For one thing, the status of the (so-called) hindsight bias is contested Why? Were some seminal studies in hindsight bias overturned? This sounds interesting! ...Oh. No, some other guy thought really hard and decided it doesn't make sense. This must be a philosophy paper.
jbroson 6y ago
What is "overanalysis" in this piece? It seemed a fairly straightforward if slightly controversial position to me. I'm not even a philosophy major. And as someone who has been near death before I tend to agree with what the author claims. When I thought I was dying I had regrets that in my late twenties I didn't have a family and kids. Luckily I recovered and have been healthy for 4-5 years since. I'm still not married and don't have kids. Why did I think it was so important when I thought I was dying? Hard to say but I think because I was terrified of dying, the unknown, and wanted some piece of me to live on into the future. Now that I'm not in that position I realize that I actually don't want kids at least at this point in my life. And me having kids or not isn't going to change the fact that after I die, hopefully many years from now, I will be completely forgotten in 100 years, probably less. Maybe an old photograph on my grandkids wall. That's true of 99.9% of us. Your "deathbed perspective" is important but the hackneyed old idea that it's THE true insight into what's important in life is oversold, IMO. When you think you're dying it terrifies you, I don't care who you are, I've seen enough people go through it that the "I'm not afraid of death" braggadocio is horseshit in almost every case. Your views on life when you're terrified of the unknown are important, sure, but not THE most important, or best insight into what life is.
ant6n 6y ago
> My own personal theory is that the deathbed perspective is quite similar to the childhood one: without the constraints of life placed upon us by social pressures and resource acquisition, we have an easier time realizing what is actually important. The most important thing in life today is riding around town in a yellow double decker bus. Tomorrow the most important thing in life is watching Peppa. The day after it’s chocolate.

phkahler 6y ago

What about this. Ask a person right now, what would they do if the knew they only had a week to live. Or if they had plenty of money and no obligations. This seems to help getting at parts of life they are neglecting. But not everyone is good at hypotheticals. Maybe that's why we put more weight on the deathbed words - the situation is very real?

keiferski 6y ago
Yeah, that’s a good point too. We all live in a mental projection of the future, where we have essentially endless time ahead of us. People without the luxury of that illusion usually have insightful things to say.
bluGill 6y ago
If I knew I only had a week to live, then I'll max out my credit cards, liquidate my retirement plans, and have a great vacation. This has nothing to do with my values though. I'd rather spend the week working on my antique collections, but the custom parts I need for the next step won't arrive in less than a week if I ordered them today. Those parts are too expensive to pay cash for without saving up for them, since I believe the long run is more than 10 years I'm better off saving up for those parts instead of taking our a loan.

Iv 6y ago

Deathbeds are where people have maximum experience and low incentive to lie. Nothing magical. Louis XIV saying "I loved war too much" on his deathbed gives a perspective to his life achievements.

keiferski 6y ago
There is plenty of incentive to lie on your deathbed. A lot of people spend their entire lives worrying about how they’ll be remembered.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- thesteamboat 6y ago
  But crucially, the incentives are different than those people have in the middle of their lives. Most people's usual incentives lead to them optimizing for the short-to-medium term future, i.e. the next couple of months or years. People on their deathbed will optimize either for the extremely short term (finishing this conversation) or the extremely long term (the last chance to affect how they'll be remembered). This suggests that if people lie on their death bed, they'll lie in different ways than ordinarily. Even if you can't take deathbed statements as unvarnished truth, their differences from everyday statements can be revealing.
- jjk166 6y ago
  For the dying, caring about other's perception is a luxury. For the living, it is a necessity. Any incentive to lie on your death bed is irrationally self imposed, which is not to say that it doesn't happen but that it doesn't have to.
JoeAltmaier 6y ago
People lie. On their deathbeds with the sense of impending finality they will do their damndest to come up with anything at all to feel better. Lie to God (I'll convert! I'll be a better person!), lie to their spouse (I was always faithful, and always loved you!), lie to themselves (It's not that bad! I'll live.) Pack any situation with emotion and adrenaline, you'll get world-class mental gymnastics. Look at the exceptional efforts even animals put out when mortally threatened. The burst of energy and struggle seems like it would be epic. Including struggling with the truth.

bittercynic 6y ago

I don't think this necessarily diminishes the importance of the deathbed perspective - many people apply pressure to themselves to seek status or resources far beyond what is required for a fulfilling life, and finding a way do loosen the grip that has on you could be a good thing for many.

pwinnski 6y ago

That people on their deathbeds do not think of their legacy seems naive. Maybe people realize what's actually important, or maybe people fantasize about impossibilities in an effort to make themselves look good, in contrast to how they lived.

oleander73 6y ago

I agree. I was diagnosed with an incurable illness last year and retired after that and I feel much more free to just say whatever I want and not worry about what people think about it.

_pastel 6y ago

It's not the overthinking part of this essay that reflects poorly on the field of philosophy. It's the complete lack of interest in evidence. > For one thing, the status of the (so-called) hindsight bias is contested Why? Were some seminal studies in hindsight bias overturned? This sounds interesting! ...Oh. No, some other guy thought really hard and decided it doesn't make sense. This must be a philosophy paper.

jbroson 6y ago

What is "overanalysis" in this piece? It seemed a fairly straightforward if slightly controversial position to me. I'm not even a philosophy major. And as someone who has been near death before I tend to agree with what the author claims. When I thought I was dying I had regrets that in my late twenties I didn't have a family and kids. Luckily I recovered and have been healthy for 4-5 years since. I'm still not married and don't have kids. Why did I think it was so important when I thought I was dying? Hard to say but I think because I was terrified of dying, the unknown, and wanted some piece of me to live on into the future. Now that I'm not in that position I realize that I actually don't want kids at least at this point in my life. And me having kids or not isn't going to change the fact that after I die, hopefully many years from now, I will be completely forgotten in 100 years, probably less. Maybe an old photograph on my grandkids wall. That's true of 99.9% of us. Your "deathbed perspective" is important but the hackneyed old idea that it's THE true insight into what's important in life is oversold, IMO. When you think you're dying it terrifies you, I don't care who you are, I've seen enough people go through it that the "I'm not afraid of death" braggadocio is horseshit in almost every case. Your views on life when you're terrified of the unknown are important, sure, but not THE most important, or best insight into what life is.

ant6n 6y ago

> My own personal theory is that the deathbed perspective is quite similar to the childhood one: without the constraints of life placed upon us by social pressures and resource acquisition, we have an easier time realizing what is actually important. The most important thing in life today is riding around town in a yellow double decker bus. Tomorrow the most important thing in life is watching Peppa. The day after it’s chocolate.