4 ms·

Author seems to take for granted that not everyone knows sql. A friend of mine recently hired a couple devs and asked them to build a web component. They didnt

Author seems to take for granted that not everyone knows sql. A friend of mine recently hired a couple devs and asked them to build a web component. They didnt know html. But they were proficient with react.

nudpiedo 6y ago
how can't they know html and were proficient react? it must be an exageration or perhaps they just knew enough HTML or missed propper CSS knowledge. Also as far as I know React has native components, not sure how much HTML decoupled are these.
- alexc05 6y ago
  This would be my guess. There are a lot of things in CSS that need specialist knowledge.
macspoofing 6y ago
I question their proficiency with React (for web). There are some abstractions you just have to be aware of. If you're a web developer you have to have a good mental model of the DOM and how web frameworks interact with it ... because even if you work on React exclusively, the React component abstraction is not perfect and the DOM is going to leak through. >Author seems to take for granted that not everyone knows sql. Then ORM is incredibly dangerous for them to use. ORM frameworks are useful but their abstraction of SQL is very leaky. You have to have a reasonable understanding of SQL in order to use an ORM framework effectively, otherwise you will get yourself in trouble. I bet this is where a lot of ORM criticism comes from ... namely developers who don't know SQL and therefore use ORM as crutch when working with a relational database. They can create a very nice object model with an ORM framework that is shit when it comes to the actual queries it generates.
arcturus17 6y ago
I seriously doubt you can be proficient with React without knowing HTML. Even if you use a framework like MaterialUI which abstracts all the HTML tags into React components, working on layout creates a recurring feedback loop between source and output code in the browser / devtools. If you've done that for some time, you end up knowing a fair bit of semantic HTML. So I suspect either your friend was exaggerating, the devs were lying about their React proficiency, or maybe they work on everything but layout in React (highly unlikely). At any rate, forgive my cynicism, but I can't help but feel that this is a classic HN cheap shot at React developers at large. ORM to SQL may be another matter. I've been using the Django ORM in the last couple of months and it's true that I haven't touched SQL but once. I know SQL but I've barely felt my skills progress since.
- ZephyrBlu 6y ago
  It seems most likely that they actually aren't proficient in React, which is not really surprising to me.
- hmsimha 6y ago
  I really like this article discussed here recently, which breaks down the new front-end work into front-of-front-end and back-of-front-end: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26160538 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26160538 knowing html is a somewhat nebulous claim, there are so many elements, attributes, and relationships, and the specification is incredibly dense. A design-focused front-end developer may almost exclusively use parts of HTML that a 'back-of-front-end' developer might not even know exist. I do think you could do back-of-front-end very competently and have only a vague understanding of HTML. However, you'd likely also be interacting strictly with a subset of React.

nudpiedo 6y ago

how can't they know html and were proficient react? it must be an exageration or perhaps they just knew enough HTML or missed propper CSS knowledge. Also as far as I know React has native components, not sure how much HTML decoupled are these.

alexc05 6y ago
This would be my guess. There are a lot of things in CSS that need specialist knowledge.

macspoofing 6y ago

I question their proficiency with React (for web). There are some abstractions you just have to be aware of. If you're a web developer you have to have a good mental model of the DOM and how web frameworks interact with it ... because even if you work on React exclusively, the React component abstraction is not perfect and the DOM is going to leak through. >Author seems to take for granted that not everyone knows sql. Then ORM is incredibly dangerous for them to use. ORM frameworks are useful but their abstraction of SQL is very leaky. You have to have a reasonable understanding of SQL in order to use an ORM framework effectively, otherwise you will get yourself in trouble. I bet this is where a lot of ORM criticism comes from ... namely developers who don't know SQL and therefore use ORM as crutch when working with a relational database. They can create a very nice object model with an ORM framework that is shit when it comes to the actual queries it generates.

arcturus17 6y ago

I seriously doubt you can be proficient with React without knowing HTML. Even if you use a framework like MaterialUI which abstracts all the HTML tags into React components, working on layout creates a recurring feedback loop between source and output code in the browser / devtools. If you've done that for some time, you end up knowing a fair bit of semantic HTML. So I suspect either your friend was exaggerating, the devs were lying about their React proficiency, or maybe they work on everything but layout in React (highly unlikely). At any rate, forgive my cynicism, but I can't help but feel that this is a classic HN cheap shot at React developers at large. ORM to SQL may be another matter. I've been using the Django ORM in the last couple of months and it's true that I haven't touched SQL but once. I know SQL but I've barely felt my skills progress since.

ZephyrBlu 6y ago
It seems most likely that they actually aren't proficient in React, which is not really surprising to me.
hmsimha 6y ago
I really like this article discussed here recently, which breaks down the new front-end work into front-of-front-end and back-of-front-end: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26160538 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26160538 knowing html is a somewhat nebulous claim, there are so many elements, attributes, and relationships, and the specification is incredibly dense. A design-focused front-end developer may almost exclusively use parts of HTML that a 'back-of-front-end' developer might not even know exist. I do think you could do back-of-front-end very competently and have only a vague understanding of HTML. However, you'd likely also be interacting strictly with a subset of React.