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The problem is you need to be highly skilled to do that repair. So many times I have ordered replacement parts and then either broken something like a plastic r

The problem is you need to be highly skilled to do that repair. So many times I have ordered replacement parts and then either broken something like a plastic ribbon cable connector, or I have installed the new part and it still doesn't work.

MayeulC 6y ago
Highly skilled? I don't think so. You just have to be very careful, and pay attention to the right things (ESD, cut the power, short circuits, etc). Secondly, the diagnostic needs to be correct. Multiple faillures is unlikely if there is no external cause (surge, flooding...) or cascading failures. Both of the above points can be solved with good documentation. I've seen very good servicing manuals, this is part of the reason I prefer thinkpads these days (though they could always contain more details...). With good servicing instructions, I've been able to perform repairs in no time on things I didn't know much about.
- jhrozek 6y ago
  I think your reply shows that you are already very skilled. Other comments mentioned replacing a diode -- I know what a diode is conceptually, but I have no idea how does it look in the appliance, where would I buy a new one or how to replace it. Being as clueless as I am, my only option is to call a proffessional. Sometimes it is worth it -- I had a fan on my MacBook replaced for ~700 SEK which is a fraction of the price, but sometimes it's not. Our 1 y/o kitchen oven bought from IKEA started malfunctioning, so we called one of the repair centers they subcontract repairs to. They sent us an invoice by accident even though the oven was covered by a warranty and I couldn't believe my eyes. The cost of the new oven was IIRC ~5000 SEK (~500 USD), but the repair was over 4500 SEK, 3k for the replacement part (!?!) and 1500 for the repairman to come and do their job. I didn't know the cost upfront and I guess they wouldn't have told me an estimate without looking at the oven, at which point I would have to pay the labour cost anyway.. So sadly, given the cost, I would have probably opted for just buying a new item if the faulty one is out of warranty..
  - HPsquared 6y ago
    Spare parts are an example of monopoly pricing - the original manufacturer is usually the only source of parts for any given product, so they can charge what they want (usually as much as possible, such that it's only just worth it to do any given repair vs. replacing the whole thing)
  - gpderetta 6y ago
    If products can be repaired easily, even if it is not worth paying to repair it or one is not skilled enough to repair it, there might still be a market for broken down items as people with skills might buy them, fix them and use or resell them. It beats throwing stuff in the trash.
    - jhrozek 6y ago
      Yeah, that's a really good point and I would actually love for my old stuff to be reused by /anyone/.
  - MayeulC 6y ago
    Hmm, I am just confident in my ability to follow instructions. I am certainly highly skilled in electronics, but repairing stuff isn't necessarily limited to that. With good instructions, I can set out to repair mechanical parts as well (replace parts of an engine for instance), high-voltage devices, masonry, or other stuff I have never done before. A good manual can make the whole difference between a successful repair, dealing a finishing blow to a product, or endangering yourself/others. Making repairs easier probably makes them cheaper as well (less skilled employees can attempt them, it takes less time and is much more enjoyable). I know I would charge less. Of course, the product has to be designed to make repairs possible, otherwise it requires a whole other level of skill (unglue parts, precisely cut where you need to). And lastly, you can only go as far as your equipment will allow you. Sometimes all you need is a (included) screwdriver, but not everyone has a milling machine handy (though that would be an interesting use-case for fablabs).
- HPsquared 6y ago
  A good manual makes all the difference for me, it gives confidence that I'll be able to even open the thing without breaking it.
edent 6y ago
I cannot emphasise enough how NOT highly skilled I am. That repair could have been done by anyone with a screwdriver and a steady hand. Take a look at the photos in my blog-post and tell me what was complicated. OK, I don't have the skills to desolder and replace a busted capacitor. But most domestic equipment is pretty plug-and-play. I am unable to use a multimeter to diagnose an issue. But lots of devices come with error codes and diagnostic manuals are online.
- foobar33333 6y ago
  I'm not saying this particular repair was hard, but in general you have to get lucky for an easy repair. I have ordered replacement parts a few times and found that it still doesn't work and I just wasted my time as well as money on new parts. When a brand new device is not too expensive and will be an upgrade over the one you are trying to fix, the choice to buy becomes more compelling.
CivBase 6y ago
> The problem is you need to be highly skilled to do that repair. You also need to be highly skilled to do a lot of automotive repairs, which is why there is a thriving market of third-party mechanics who will perform those repairs for a fraction of the cost of buying a new vehicle. The same can (and should, IMO) be true for electronics.

MayeulC 6y ago

Highly skilled? I don't think so. You just have to be very careful, and pay attention to the right things (ESD, cut the power, short circuits, etc). Secondly, the diagnostic needs to be correct. Multiple faillures is unlikely if there is no external cause (surge, flooding...) or cascading failures. Both of the above points can be solved with good documentation. I've seen very good servicing manuals, this is part of the reason I prefer thinkpads these days (though they could always contain more details...). With good servicing instructions, I've been able to perform repairs in no time on things I didn't know much about.

jhrozek 6y ago
I think your reply shows that you are already very skilled. Other comments mentioned replacing a diode -- I know what a diode is conceptually, but I have no idea how does it look in the appliance, where would I buy a new one or how to replace it. Being as clueless as I am, my only option is to call a proffessional. Sometimes it is worth it -- I had a fan on my MacBook replaced for ~700 SEK which is a fraction of the price, but sometimes it's not. Our 1 y/o kitchen oven bought from IKEA started malfunctioning, so we called one of the repair centers they subcontract repairs to. They sent us an invoice by accident even though the oven was covered by a warranty and I couldn't believe my eyes. The cost of the new oven was IIRC ~5000 SEK (~500 USD), but the repair was over 4500 SEK, 3k for the replacement part (!?!) and 1500 for the repairman to come and do their job. I didn't know the cost upfront and I guess they wouldn't have told me an estimate without looking at the oven, at which point I would have to pay the labour cost anyway.. So sadly, given the cost, I would have probably opted for just buying a new item if the faulty one is out of warranty..
- HPsquared 6y ago
  Spare parts are an example of monopoly pricing - the original manufacturer is usually the only source of parts for any given product, so they can charge what they want (usually as much as possible, such that it's only just worth it to do any given repair vs. replacing the whole thing)
- gpderetta 6y ago
  If products can be repaired easily, even if it is not worth paying to repair it or one is not skilled enough to repair it, there might still be a market for broken down items as people with skills might buy them, fix them and use or resell them. It beats throwing stuff in the trash.
  - jhrozek 6y ago
    Yeah, that's a really good point and I would actually love for my old stuff to be reused by /anyone/.
- MayeulC 6y ago
  Hmm, I am just confident in my ability to follow instructions. I am certainly highly skilled in electronics, but repairing stuff isn't necessarily limited to that. With good instructions, I can set out to repair mechanical parts as well (replace parts of an engine for instance), high-voltage devices, masonry, or other stuff I have never done before. A good manual can make the whole difference between a successful repair, dealing a finishing blow to a product, or endangering yourself/others. Making repairs easier probably makes them cheaper as well (less skilled employees can attempt them, it takes less time and is much more enjoyable). I know I would charge less. Of course, the product has to be designed to make repairs possible, otherwise it requires a whole other level of skill (unglue parts, precisely cut where you need to). And lastly, you can only go as far as your equipment will allow you. Sometimes all you need is a (included) screwdriver, but not everyone has a milling machine handy (though that would be an interesting use-case for fablabs).
HPsquared 6y ago
A good manual makes all the difference for me, it gives confidence that I'll be able to even open the thing without breaking it.

edent 6y ago

I cannot emphasise enough how NOT highly skilled I am. That repair could have been done by anyone with a screwdriver and a steady hand. Take a look at the photos in my blog-post and tell me what was complicated. OK, I don't have the skills to desolder and replace a busted capacitor. But most domestic equipment is pretty plug-and-play. I am unable to use a multimeter to diagnose an issue. But lots of devices come with error codes and diagnostic manuals are online.

foobar33333 6y ago
I'm not saying this particular repair was hard, but in general you have to get lucky for an easy repair. I have ordered replacement parts a few times and found that it still doesn't work and I just wasted my time as well as money on new parts. When a brand new device is not too expensive and will be an upgrade over the one you are trying to fix, the choice to buy becomes more compelling.

CivBase 6y ago

> The problem is you need to be highly skilled to do that repair. You also need to be highly skilled to do a lot of automotive repairs, which is why there is a thriving market of third-party mechanics who will perform those repairs for a fraction of the cost of buying a new vehicle. The same can (and should, IMO) be true for electronics.