8 ms·

Hopefully such things bring forced availability of rare spare parts. If cookie cutter capacitors break, that's nothing really since you can just order them on M

Hopefully such things bring forced availability of rare spare parts. If cookie cutter capacitors break, that's nothing really since you can just order them on Mouser et al. But if a more special part breaks, say a custom voltage regulator to a game console (just since I saw a video on that fail yesterday), I would like for a repair center to be able to buy one such for a reasonable price and have the 500$ console repaired for perhaps 100$ - not scrap it.

maxbaines 6y ago
I fear the replacement parts for such a repair will be the entire power supply pcb or enclosure as oppose to the discrete failed components. Therefore complying with the law but likely still expensive compared to new.
5h 6y ago
I suspect the multitude of little plastic catches, clips, switches, levers etc that everything contains now are the major source of appliances being junked.
alias_neo 6y ago
My ~£300 Tannoy powered subwoofer for my home theatre failed recently. They refused to honour the 10 year warranty because my proof of purchase wasn't in the right format or some such. Surely proof is proof? I paid the same money as everyone else. Well, luckily for me, I have a degree in Electronic Engineering, so a week or so of reverse engineering and a few hundred £s in test equipment later I replaced the 20p Schottky diode which has failed and I have a working sub. First manufacturers need to put their money where their mouth is regarding warranties, not have stupid obtuse get out clauses. Secondly, fuck Tannoy, and all associated brands, they just lost a customer for life over this, so much for buying "British" as a Brit, I'll vote with my wallet. Taking brand suggestions for future purchases who treat their customers a little better.
- bloqs 6y ago
  I can't verify this, other than via the stories specifics make it sound believable, and I've had similar experiences elsewhere. I too will never buy a tannoy product again.
detritus 6y ago
The door shelves in our crappy fridge at home have all gradually cracked and split and are held in place by messes of superglue and transparent Gorilla tape. Fed up with this, I priced up replacing them last week. It'll be cheaper to buy a new fridge. They're just crappy moulded plastic
- bluGill 6y ago
  Part of that cost is molded plastic is cheap only while you have the molds. Once the fridge goes out of production they make a few for spares and then recycle the molds. The solution to this is to address how spare parts must be handled. This is not easy, either you figure expected lifetime of the shelves vs rest of the fridge, and then order enough - but if you get it wrong you are still out. Or you keep the molds, which also implies equipment to use the molds - but that wears out over time as well and the new model might not use the old molds.
  - maxerickson 6y ago
    I would think producing spares after end of production would be expensive even if you kept the molds around.
    - bluGill 6y ago
      One is expensive, but most of the costs is setup/teardown so you just produce a bunch (perhaps 1000) for the warehouse when supply runs low. That is how companies that keep their molds function, but you pay for them to store the mold and have a warehouse with all the supply in, so spare parts are always a lot more expensive after full production has stopped. Don't confuse spare parts with maintenance parts. If there are wear parts (filters, bearings...) that are expected to be replaced regularly there is a lot more turn over of the parts, and so everything is planned ahead around keeping the right amount of production going. These parts tend to be more industry standard parts bought off the shelf from a supplier that has other customers for the same part so your part order might go to the supplier who just puts a different label on the standard part and ships it to you.
  - 6y ago
luxuryballs 6y ago
This kind of stuff is how government “incentives” end up essentially banning devices with such fancy parts because the companies will realize complying would be taking a loss so they just stop participating.
- abainbridge 6y ago
  I think the EU regs have tried to avoid that by specifying the requirements of spares availability case by case. For example, the requirements for washing machines are in C(2019) 2124, annex II. It says: manufacturers, importers or authorised representatives of household washing machines and household washer-dryers shall make available to professional repairers at least the following spare parts, for a minimum period of ten years after placing the last unit of the model on the market: * motor and motor brushes; * transmission between motor and drum; * pumps; * shock absorbers and springs; * washing drum, drum spider and related ball bearings (separately or bundled); * heaters and heating elements, including heat pumps (separately or bundled); * piping and related equipment including all hoses, valves, filters and aquastops (separately or bundled); * printed circuit boards;
  - luxuryballs 6y ago
    Thanks for sharing this, though I think it’s probably even worse because now they get to essentially play favorites with their regulations which is a major breeding ground for corruption.
kmeisthax 6y ago
We also need specific exceptions to DMCA 1201-style laws (most countries copypasted the 1201 language) to allow circumvention for repair purposes, and specifically allow distribution of circumvention tools in cases where first-party repair is no longer available. If you don't service console disc drives anymore, I should legally be able to tell everyone how to unlock their disc drives so they can be swapped with spares. (For the record: Most 1201 exceptions do NOT cover tools, under the idea that lawful circumvention will be carried out by entities that can do their own RE work.)

maxbaines 6y ago

I fear the replacement parts for such a repair will be the entire power supply pcb or enclosure as oppose to the discrete failed components. Therefore complying with the law but likely still expensive compared to new.

5h 6y ago

I suspect the multitude of little plastic catches, clips, switches, levers etc that everything contains now are the major source of appliances being junked.

alias_neo 6y ago

My ~£300 Tannoy powered subwoofer for my home theatre failed recently. They refused to honour the 10 year warranty because my proof of purchase wasn't in the right format or some such. Surely proof is proof? I paid the same money as everyone else. Well, luckily for me, I have a degree in Electronic Engineering, so a week or so of reverse engineering and a few hundred £s in test equipment later I replaced the 20p Schottky diode which has failed and I have a working sub. First manufacturers need to put their money where their mouth is regarding warranties, not have stupid obtuse get out clauses. Secondly, fuck Tannoy, and all associated brands, they just lost a customer for life over this, so much for buying "British" as a Brit, I'll vote with my wallet. Taking brand suggestions for future purchases who treat their customers a little better.

bloqs 6y ago
I can't verify this, other than via the stories specifics make it sound believable, and I've had similar experiences elsewhere. I too will never buy a tannoy product again.

detritus 6y ago

The door shelves in our crappy fridge at home have all gradually cracked and split and are held in place by messes of superglue and transparent Gorilla tape. Fed up with this, I priced up replacing them last week. It'll be cheaper to buy a new fridge. They're just crappy moulded plastic

bluGill 6y ago
Part of that cost is molded plastic is cheap only while you have the molds. Once the fridge goes out of production they make a few for spares and then recycle the molds. The solution to this is to address how spare parts must be handled. This is not easy, either you figure expected lifetime of the shelves vs rest of the fridge, and then order enough - but if you get it wrong you are still out. Or you keep the molds, which also implies equipment to use the molds - but that wears out over time as well and the new model might not use the old molds.
- maxerickson 6y ago
  I would think producing spares after end of production would be expensive even if you kept the molds around.
  - bluGill 6y ago
    One is expensive, but most of the costs is setup/teardown so you just produce a bunch (perhaps 1000) for the warehouse when supply runs low. That is how companies that keep their molds function, but you pay for them to store the mold and have a warehouse with all the supply in, so spare parts are always a lot more expensive after full production has stopped. Don't confuse spare parts with maintenance parts. If there are wear parts (filters, bearings...) that are expected to be replaced regularly there is a lot more turn over of the parts, and so everything is planned ahead around keeping the right amount of production going. These parts tend to be more industry standard parts bought off the shelf from a supplier that has other customers for the same part so your part order might go to the supplier who just puts a different label on the standard part and ships it to you.
- 6y ago

luxuryballs 6y ago

This kind of stuff is how government “incentives” end up essentially banning devices with such fancy parts because the companies will realize complying would be taking a loss so they just stop participating.

abainbridge 6y ago
I think the EU regs have tried to avoid that by specifying the requirements of spares availability case by case. For example, the requirements for washing machines are in C(2019) 2124, annex II. It says: manufacturers, importers or authorised representatives of household washing machines and household washer-dryers shall make available to professional repairers at least the following spare parts, for a minimum period of ten years after placing the last unit of the model on the market: * motor and motor brushes; * transmission between motor and drum; * pumps; * shock absorbers and springs; * washing drum, drum spider and related ball bearings (separately or bundled); * heaters and heating elements, including heat pumps (separately or bundled); * piping and related equipment including all hoses, valves, filters and aquastops (separately or bundled); * printed circuit boards;
- luxuryballs 6y ago
  Thanks for sharing this, though I think it’s probably even worse because now they get to essentially play favorites with their regulations which is a major breeding ground for corruption.

kmeisthax 6y ago

We also need specific exceptions to DMCA 1201-style laws (most countries copypasted the 1201 language) to allow circumvention for repair purposes, and specifically allow distribution of circumvention tools in cases where first-party repair is no longer available. If you don't service console disc drives anymore, I should legally be able to tell everyone how to unlock their disc drives so they can be swapped with spares. (For the record: Most 1201 exceptions do NOT cover tools, under the idea that lawful circumvention will be carried out by entities that can do their own RE work.)