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This reminds me of an anecdote I read once, maybe in Liars Poker, about how lots of people applying to this hedge fund put "Chess" on their resume somewhere thi
by ALittleLight 6y ago
This reminds me of an anecdote I read once, maybe in Liars Poker, about how lots of people applying to this hedge fund put "Chess" on their resume somewhere thinking it made them seem like a deep or strategic thinker. As it happened, at this hedge fund there worked a former Soviet master or grandmaster ranked player. And so, whenever interviewing any candidate who claimed great proficiency with chess on their resume, at the end of the interview they'd take the candidate to go play the master.
- mudita 6y agoSo, as a bonus, the ones who were not lying about being good at chess were probably really happy about the chance to play a grandmaster! :)
- josephg 6y agoI used to do some work with a software consulting firm. There was a ping pong table in the office, and while talking about rates, our CEO liked to offer clients a 15% discount on our services if they could beat Joe from accounting at ping pong. He did it as a bit of a running joke, and to see how people reacted to the offer. What our clients didn't know was that Joe was terrible at ping pong. But that didn't matter - from memory he was only ever challenged once in the many years I was there.
- JimmyAustin 6y agoA mate of mine's consulting company offers a 10% discount on any work if the client buys them a plant, any plant, for the office. Apparently they've only had two clients take them up on the offer.
- neolog 6y agoWhy do they offer that?
- s314159265358 6y agoBecause they want plants.
- pliny 6y agoYou can trade money for plants
- zelos 6y agoExplain how?
- antonvs 6y agoSomething to do with blockchain, I assume.
- prepend 6y agoNFT for physical objects is the new hotness. That way they can just demonstrate ownership of the plant instead of having to move it around.
- mckirk 6y agoTransparent OLED screens on window sills cycling through simulations of virtual plants, together with their NFT tags... I want the future back, we were promised hoverboards!
- prepend 6y agoNFT is revoked when physical plant dies.
- justinclift 6y agoSome plants are useful after they're cactus. ;)
- RJIb8RBYxzAMX9u 6y ago> [...] [H]e was only ever challenged once in the many years I was there. I suspect that's because your client's spending their company's money, and it made no difference if the rate were cheaper. They'd rather sign the deal quickly then GTFO. Challenging Joe would only prolong the process.
- dmos62 6y agoBut it would be fun?
- dunefox 6y agoFun doesn't make money.
- loloquwowndueo 6y agoYou must never have heard of clowns
- Cederfjard 6y agoRelationships do, though, and people also tend to like having them. And having fun.
- Sohcahtoa82 6y agoYou could have almost 3X your money with FUN if you bought at the right time. https://www.marketwatch.com/investing/stock/fun https://www.marketwatch.com/investing/stock/fun
- Nasrudith 6y agoIf they are higher salary relative to the discount it could be a losing prospect monetarily just by wasting their time.
- rrmm 6y agoI'm always wary of a Sir Gawain and Greenknight sort of situation. And sure you'll say it's only ping pong: But that's how they get you.
- dmos62 6y agoI'm intrigued. In the fable the game is a clever test of knightsmanship. What makes you wary of this sort of situation?
- ALittleLight 6y agoIt's been a while since I've read it, but doesn't someone get decapitated in that clever test of knightsmanship?
- dmos62 6y agoWell yes, Greenknight gets his head lobed off, but he then puts it back on. The scary part is that in a year's time he'll get to return the favor (but doesn't, because it was a test of chivalry (and the protagonist was chivalrous)). Wikipedia has a synopsis.
- rrmm 6y agoSure, but Gawain only finds that it's a test after the fact (by surviving the test due to his virtuousness). So my take away was always something along the lines of don't play games whose stakes you may not fully understand against people whose power you may not fully appreciate especially if it doesn't seem like there is a downside.
- dmos62 6y ago> against people whose power you may not fully appreciate especially if it doesn't seem like there is a downside. But that's the part that makes it fun!
- Cd00d 6y ago
- selcuka 6y agoThat's a bit unfair though. I wouldn't take "great proficiency with chess" on a resume as grandmaster level.
- ivalm 6y agoTo be fair, lots of people colloquially claim to be good at chess but can’t even stumble though a proper opening. The difference between say a class-a player and a rando is massive and easy to tell.
- dnh44 6y agoMemorising openings is also a crutch for players who aren’t that good so I’m not sure if I would use that as a benchmark for good players.
- nathancahill 6y agoI feel personally attacked. But I didn't downvote you because you're not wrong.
- supportlocal4h 6y agoMemorizing openings is not a crutch. It's the only path upward past a certain point. It is impossible to play competitively at, say, the 2000 level if you haven't mastered a few openings. If you want to play 800-level chess, you can have fun without knowing any set openings. Well, almost. You'd better be able to recognize and defend scholar's mate at a bare minimum. But that is a bit like being an amateur programmer who never learns what a function is. You can still enjoy programming at that level, but it's odd to describe functions as crutches.
- jeremyjh 6y agoI doubt if you can play competitively at the 1600 level without knowing some opening theory. That'd be like playing against a 3200 for the first six moves and then hoping you are not worse. GP has no idea what he is talking about; it is stronger players who study theory. Weak players may/learn a few tricks/gambits, but you have to learn at least enough of those to avoid them.
- DocTomoe 6y agoI'd file an application just for that. And yes, (s)he would run circles around me. A Strategy that would backfire quickly.
- LudwigNagasena 6y agoI wouldn’t put “chess” onto my resume unless I was at least titled. Otherwise, what is a signal that it sends to the hedge fund crowd of overachievers? That you have a hobby that you managed to not get good at?
- beaconstudios 6y agoI have chess on my CV even though I stopped seriously playing at 15 and ~1700 OTB ELO - not to showcase my competitiveness but to add some flavour/personality to what is otherwise a very dry career oriented document and maybe get an anecdote in that I can use to break the ice or relate to somebody.
- ClumsyPilot 6y agoI have cycling on my CV but I have no intention of doing tour de france
- jameshart 6y agoIs the objective of hobbies to ‘get good’ at them? That sounds exhausting. If someone lists ‘skiing’ as a hobby I’m not expecting them to have Olympic medals to back that up. ‘It says here on your resume that you play guitar. Well, let’s see how you fair in a guitar battle with Slash from accounting’ This is just more of that hyper competitive ‘well rounded college applicant’ performative high school stuff, isn’t it? It’s not enough to just have an interest - you need evidence of performing at a competitive level.
- behringer 6y agoI would not list guitar playing on my resume unless I was prepared to entertain a crowd at my job interview. Likewise I wouldn't list chess unless I was good enough to at least entertain a grand master for a few minutes.
- lupire 6y agoNonsense. Entertaining a crowd is nothing like entertaining a grand master. A 1400 USCF player could organize a chess tournament as a company social event. Guitar is a performance art. Mediocre people are entertaining. Chess (and skiing) mostly isn't.
- isolli 6y agoThis anecdote was recounted by Nassim Taleb in one of his books, either Fooled by Randomness (which I recommend) or The Black Swan (which I don't). According to him, it was MBA courses that recommended adding chess to the CV, as it showed strategic thinking and would never be verified.
- indy 6y agoIt was Fooled by Randomness. (Randomly enough I was reading that book for the first time yesterday)
- isolli 6y agoThanks. I hope you enjoy it :) And I really don't recommend reading the Black Swan, especially after reading Fooled by Randomness!
- mos_basik 6y agoI'm interested in why you hold that opinion of Black Swan. I just read it a couple of months back because I figured I probably owed reading some Taleb as back table stakes for all the hours I've spent reading HN (and SSC). Picked Black Swan because it seemed to be the most well known and I've never liked jumping into a series with the most recent release. I enjoyed it, will read more of him, but haven't yet. Do you have an order recommendation?
- rurp 6y agoIt's been a while since I read these books but I'm surprised to hear someone like Fooled By Randomness but not Black Swan. One of the few complaints I had of Black Swan was that it felt a bit redundant in parts from the previous book. Overall I think both books are great and worth reading. I highly recommend reading Antifragile next though. It's fairly different from the other two and extremely interesting; probably one of my favorite books.
- isolli 6y ago
- GuB-42 6y agoHow is it usually written on the resume? I would expect someone to be actually good at chess to put down their Elo rating. For someone just putting it as a hobby, I wouldn't expect much, especially when it comes to the "boring" stuff like memorizing openings. In the same way that there is usually a difference between what high level athletes and hobbyist write. The former usually mention something concrete (champion of..., XXX league, a time or score, ...) while the latter just mention the sport, often among other things.
- texasbigdata 6y agoPutting an ELO is like putting your SAT when you’re 25 and over: sort of aggressive and you better have a really high number!
- sokoloff 6y agoI scored fairly well on the SAT. I can’t think of anything short of a court order that would cause me to put it on my resume.
- jjk166 6y agoIf someone had bad education credentials (bad school, dropout, etc) but they put a high SAT score on a resume that would be a pretty concise way of communicating "it wasn't because I'm dumb"
- sokoloff 6y agoIt’s possible that the received signal would be “I test well, but I struggle to complete a structured, long-term course of action”, which probably isn’t that beneficial.
- jjk166 6y agoI'd still prefer that to "I both test poorly and struggle to complete a structured, long-term course of action" which is just as likely an interpretation if you left it off. At the end of the day, anything could be bad if viewed with sufficient cynicism, and you can't control how others will interpret what you present, you can only control the information which is presented.
- bambax 6y ago"Knows (most of) the rules of chess" would be an accurate description of my level.
- matthucke 6y agoSorry, this job requires 9 years experience with en passant.
- georgiecasey 6y agoJames Damore must have read that book as well, he lied on his CV saying he was a FIDE master. I'm always fascinated at the esteem chess is held in for some reason. I don't have a high rating (lichess rapid ~1900) but to me, improving at chess is the same as improving at everything else: practice.
- lupire 6y agoHow high is high? That's 86%ile of weekly active players, with ~70K weekly active players above you. https://lichess.org/stat/rating/distribution/rapid https://lichess.org/stat/rating/distribution/rapid
- elwell 6y agoAnd if you beat the chess master you still don't get an offer because it means you must be too busy learning chess to be dedicated to the hedge fund.