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San Francisco DA Chesa Boudin recall campaign approved

50 points by almost_usual 6y ago

gogopuppygogo 6y ago
This is amazing. I hope San Francisco residents pull through and get to elect someone who can help turn the city around. The existing policies are in part driving record numbers of people away from the Bay Area. I left. I think the area is beautiful but I couldn’t believe it when I called the cops as two men had broke the windows of a CVS down the street from salesforce tower and we’re making drugs on the sidewalk out front when the 911 operator said “what do you want us to do?” in response.
- mbgerring 6y ago
  It sounds like you’re blaming the DA for the police not doing their jobs, which is strange, because the DA does not run the police department
  - SheinhardtWigCo 6y ago
    Why would the police build a case when they know the DA won't bring charges?
    - techrat 6y ago
      Because it's still their job to do so.
      - gnicholas 6y ago
        Police have limited resources. It would be inefficient of them to spend much time investigating crimes that the DA has clearly stated he will not prosecute. It makes much more sense for them to investigate crimes that might actually lead to prosecutions.
        linseed_213 6y ago
        Is there evidence that they're doing that?
  - simplecto 6y ago
    Criminals act with impunity because there is little to no enforcement for those who are detained/apprehended. So yes, the DA definitely has a big hand in this.
    - anigbrowl 6y ago
      And yet crime is down, how mysterious
  - roenxi 6y ago
    Traditionally, when things go bad, the public doesn't really have the ability to figure out who specifically did what that caused which problem. They just start rolling people until the situation improves.
  - lawnchair_larry 6y ago
    You’re very misinformed on the situation. Like many cities across the country, special interests successfully ran an unqualified activist DA who fires all of the prosecutors and refuses to charge criminals. And they’re all paying the price as crime goes to shit.
    - QuesnayJr 6y ago
      I don't know anything about the situation in SF, but according to the Chronicle article on this crime in SF is down.
      - lawnchair_larry 6y ago
        1. It doesn’t say that, many categories are up. 2. It’s a pandemic with much of the last 9 months in lockdown. 3. The numbers in certain categories are much higher than reported because most people have given up and don’t bother reporting
        mbgerring 6y ago
        It’s true that like in almost every city in America in 2020, some categories of crime went up in San Francisco in 2020, and I am still waiting for anyone to make a convincing argument that it’s because of the DA, or offer any proof that people stopped reporting crime because of the DA. What’s interesting to me is that violent crime has indisputably not increased since Boudin was elected, yet his critics are constantly using the details of specific violent crimes as a rhetorical cudgel, insinuating that Boudin personally caused a wave of violent crime that simply is not happening.
        lawnchair_larry 6y ago
        > What’s interesting to me is that violent crime has indisputably not increased since Boudin was elected, yet his critics are constantly using the details of specific violent crimes as a rhetorical cudgel, insinuating that Boudin personally caused a wave of violent crime that simply is not happening. Isn’t that amazing? Wait until you see the data behind the black lives matter narrative. It too says precisely the opposite of what everyone thinks.
  - wahern 6y ago
    Normally I would think your point a strong one, and that the police should just do their job regardless. But it's difficult to exaggerate how radical are Boudin's policies.[1] It's so bad that I think the police are justified in this case in letting some problems openly fester so Boudin can take the heat now, rather than playing a game of musical chairs, complicate the story, and give Boudin plausible deniability. I mean, it's an inevitable consequence of his policies, so why bother trying to thwart the "will of the people"? This is especially true when the police could be using those resources to patrol residential neighborhoods in an effort to try to prevent some residential burglaries, which are also sky rocketing. The interesting thing is that Boudin only won because of instant run-off voting. Both the moderate and conservative candidates won more votes, but not 50%, and Boudin had the name recognition to be many people's second choice. [1] It's not just the policies of trying to avoid unnecessary and ineffective incarceration, it's that Boudin offers zero alternatives. For example, to justify failing to press felony charges for a violent burglary against a repeat violent offender who would a week later kill two people, Boudin explained that his office had forwarded the matter to the person's parole officer. But did they ever follow up to see if the parole officer had decided to revoke parole or attempt to reign in their parolee at all? AFAIK, no, the DA's office simple threw the matter over the fence. It just boggles the mind. Boudin's policies are simply a dereliction of his responsibilities, pure and simple. It's a real-life Batman movie where a corrupt or inept DA simply stops enforcing the law. Or like if the Joker was elected the DA. It really puts the cops in a bind. Why bother arresting someone when you know they're going to walk that same day, return to doing exactly the same thing, and with little chance the DA would prosecute? (Zero chance of prosecution for property crimes, mind you.) I mean, in this absurd context such an arrest could be argued to be a form of harassment. And, to reiterate, that's not an exaggerated or hyperbolic characterization of the situation. It's gotten so bad that the police are using Twitter to name and shame some of the more egregious cases (of which there are many), and AFAIK nobody else in city government nor the press is chastising the police for playing political games that in any other context would be unacceptable.
    - mbgerring 6y ago
      Just to be clear here: you’re saying that it’s OK for the police to not arrest criminals or prevent crime, which is their only job, because they dislike the DA. Are you also saying that it’s OK for political opponents of the DA to then use bad outcomes caused by the police, purposefully not doing their jobs in order to sabotage the DA, as a reason to recall the DA? If the police really are standing aside and allowing people to be victimized, and threatening to do it until they get what they want, that sounds a lot like a hostage situation to me, and I don’t think there’s any way to justify that.
pfortuny 6y ago
Unavailable in Europe...
- CaptainJustin 6y ago
  Maybe this one will work: https://www.sfchronicle.com/crime/article/Campaign-to-recall-S-F-s-Chesa-Boudin-to-start-16013079.php https://www.sfchronicle.com/crime/article/Campaign-to-recall...
  - bobthepanda 6y ago
    That one is behind a paywall.
  - pfortuny 6y ago
    Works for me. Thanks.
refurb 6y ago
It's been amazing just how many high profile crimes have happened in the past few months where the suspect was a repeated offender of serious crimes. And as well, they had often last been arrested in the few months but for some odd reason were immediately released only to commit another serious crime.
- heterodoxxed 6y ago
  And we're sure that this is statistically different than any other period of time and that the policies of the DA are behind it? Despite this being Hacker News, I see a lot of people here reacting to sensationalist single data points and not a whole lot of discussion about trends on this issue.
  - refurb 6y ago
    Not sure how that’s relevant? If people in SF are unsatisfied with policing matters, then recalling their DA seems reasonable whether or not it’s a recent problem or one that’s been on-going. And Chesa hasn’t done himself any favors in his response. The latest issue is pretty disheartening with a women being raped by a guy who had attacked another woman only a few weeks prior.
  - throwaway2048 6y ago
    Hacker news is full of reactionary types and has been for a long time
    - refurb 6y ago
      Some woman was attacked and restrained by some guy known to the police then 2.5 months later rapes a woman while wearing an ankle monitor and you're trying to dismiss those concerns as "reactionary"? This is just one example. There is the young woman run over by a driver who had a string of serious crimes in the past. There are others. https://abc7news.com/potrero-hill-attack-san-francisco-crime-woman-attacked-sf-ankle-monitor/10396172/ https://abc7news.com/potrero-hill-attack-san-francisco-crime...
pablooliva 6y ago
Alternative source for Europeans: https://sftimes.com/san-francisco-district-attorney-chesa-boudin-facing-recall-campaign-amid-criticism/ https://sftimes.com/san-francisco-district-attorney-chesa-bo...
- simonebrunozzi 6y ago
  Thanks. Otherwise, this is what we would get: > Our European visitors are important to us. > This site is currently unavailable to visitors from the European Economic Area while we work to ensure your data is protected in accordance with applicable EU laws.
beowulfey 6y ago
If anyone can prove to me that this is an effect of Chesa Boudin being elected and not, say, a global pandemic causing social distress that led to increased crimes nationwide [1], I might see some justification for this. All I see now is correlation without causation. [1] https://www.npr.org/2021/01/06/953254623/massive-1-year-rise-in-homicide-rates-collided-with-the-pandemic-in-2020 https://www.npr.org/2021/01/06/953254623/massive-1-year-rise...
- gnicholas 6y ago
  The trend of the pandemic is that homicides are up, but property crimes are down. In SF, violent crimes are down, but property crimes are way up. According to the original article: > When looking closer, city police data shows that violent crimes like homicide, rape and robbery were down in 2020 compared to 2019. However, burglary, arson, and vehicle thefts rose. This contrasts with the trend indicated in the article you posted: > Rosenfeld says there has been some respite since property crimes took a nosedive as the pandemic began. "Burglaries were down. Larcenies were down. You know quarantines kept people at home and burglaries tend to avoid occupied households," he explained. "When the shops are closed, there's no shoplifting, so larceny is reduced." Boudin's controversial policies relate largely to property crimes, and some of the press coverage and outrage resulted from people who were released from custody for property crimes and went on to hurt/kill people soon thereafter.
  - beowulfey 6y ago
    To that point, though, property crime and auto theft of SF appears to be lower in 2020 compared to previous years as well. But I did not look into it too deeply. https://sfgov.org/scorecards/public-safety/violent-crime-rate-and-property-crime-rate https://sfgov.org/scorecards/public-safety/violent-crime-rat...
    - gnicholas 6y ago
      Motor vehicle theft was up 36% in 2020 over 2019, and burglary was up 51%. Larceny was down 39%, however. https://www.sanfranciscopolice.org/stay-safe/crime-data/crime-dashboard https://www.sanfranciscopolice.org/stay-safe/crime-data/crim...

50 points by almost_usual 6y ago

This is amazing. I hope San Francisco residents pull through and get to elect someone who can help turn the city around. The existing policies are in part driving record numbers of people away from the Bay Area. I left. I think the area is beautiful but I couldn’t believe it when I called the cops as two men had broke the windows of a CVS down the street from salesforce tower and we’re making drugs on the sidewalk out front when the 911 operator said “what do you want us to do?” in response.

mbgerring 6y ago
It sounds like you’re blaming the DA for the police not doing their jobs, which is strange, because the DA does not run the police department
- SheinhardtWigCo 6y ago
  Why would the police build a case when they know the DA won't bring charges?
  - techrat 6y ago
    Because it's still their job to do so.
    - gnicholas 6y ago
      Police have limited resources. It would be inefficient of them to spend much time investigating crimes that the DA has clearly stated he will not prosecute. It makes much more sense for them to investigate crimes that might actually lead to prosecutions.
      - linseed_213 6y ago
        Is there evidence that they're doing that?
- simplecto 6y ago
  Criminals act with impunity because there is little to no enforcement for those who are detained/apprehended. So yes, the DA definitely has a big hand in this.
  - anigbrowl 6y ago
    And yet crime is down, how mysterious
- roenxi 6y ago
  Traditionally, when things go bad, the public doesn't really have the ability to figure out who specifically did what that caused which problem. They just start rolling people until the situation improves.
- lawnchair_larry 6y ago
  You’re very misinformed on the situation. Like many cities across the country, special interests successfully ran an unqualified activist DA who fires all of the prosecutors and refuses to charge criminals. And they’re all paying the price as crime goes to shit.
  - QuesnayJr 6y ago
    I don't know anything about the situation in SF, but according to the Chronicle article on this crime in SF is down.
    - lawnchair_larry 6y ago
      1. It doesn’t say that, many categories are up. 2. It’s a pandemic with much of the last 9 months in lockdown. 3. The numbers in certain categories are much higher than reported because most people have given up and don’t bother reporting
      - mbgerring 6y ago
        It’s true that like in almost every city in America in 2020, some categories of crime went up in San Francisco in 2020, and I am still waiting for anyone to make a convincing argument that it’s because of the DA, or offer any proof that people stopped reporting crime because of the DA. What’s interesting to me is that violent crime has indisputably not increased since Boudin was elected, yet his critics are constantly using the details of specific violent crimes as a rhetorical cudgel, insinuating that Boudin personally caused a wave of violent crime that simply is not happening.
        lawnchair_larry 6y ago
        > What’s interesting to me is that violent crime has indisputably not increased since Boudin was elected, yet his critics are constantly using the details of specific violent crimes as a rhetorical cudgel, insinuating that Boudin personally caused a wave of violent crime that simply is not happening. Isn’t that amazing? Wait until you see the data behind the black lives matter narrative. It too says precisely the opposite of what everyone thinks.
- wahern 6y ago
  Normally I would think your point a strong one, and that the police should just do their job regardless. But it's difficult to exaggerate how radical are Boudin's policies.[1] It's so bad that I think the police are justified in this case in letting some problems openly fester so Boudin can take the heat now, rather than playing a game of musical chairs, complicate the story, and give Boudin plausible deniability. I mean, it's an inevitable consequence of his policies, so why bother trying to thwart the "will of the people"? This is especially true when the police could be using those resources to patrol residential neighborhoods in an effort to try to prevent some residential burglaries, which are also sky rocketing. The interesting thing is that Boudin only won because of instant run-off voting. Both the moderate and conservative candidates won more votes, but not 50%, and Boudin had the name recognition to be many people's second choice. [1] It's not just the policies of trying to avoid unnecessary and ineffective incarceration, it's that Boudin offers zero alternatives. For example, to justify failing to press felony charges for a violent burglary against a repeat violent offender who would a week later kill two people, Boudin explained that his office had forwarded the matter to the person's parole officer. But did they ever follow up to see if the parole officer had decided to revoke parole or attempt to reign in their parolee at all? AFAIK, no, the DA's office simple threw the matter over the fence. It just boggles the mind. Boudin's policies are simply a dereliction of his responsibilities, pure and simple. It's a real-life Batman movie where a corrupt or inept DA simply stops enforcing the law. Or like if the Joker was elected the DA. It really puts the cops in a bind. Why bother arresting someone when you know they're going to walk that same day, return to doing exactly the same thing, and with little chance the DA would prosecute? (Zero chance of prosecution for property crimes, mind you.) I mean, in this absurd context such an arrest could be argued to be a form of harassment. And, to reiterate, that's not an exaggerated or hyperbolic characterization of the situation. It's gotten so bad that the police are using Twitter to name and shame some of the more egregious cases (of which there are many), and AFAIK nobody else in city government nor the press is chastising the police for playing political games that in any other context would be unacceptable.
  - mbgerring 6y ago
    Just to be clear here: you’re saying that it’s OK for the police to not arrest criminals or prevent crime, which is their only job, because they dislike the DA. Are you also saying that it’s OK for political opponents of the DA to then use bad outcomes caused by the police, purposefully not doing their jobs in order to sabotage the DA, as a reason to recall the DA? If the police really are standing aside and allowing people to be victimized, and threatening to do it until they get what they want, that sounds a lot like a hostage situation to me, and I don’t think there’s any way to justify that.

pfortuny 6y ago

Unavailable in Europe...

CaptainJustin 6y ago
Maybe this one will work: https://www.sfchronicle.com/crime/article/Campaign-to-recall-S-F-s-Chesa-Boudin-to-start-16013079.php https://www.sfchronicle.com/crime/article/Campaign-to-recall...
- bobthepanda 6y ago
  That one is behind a paywall.
- pfortuny 6y ago
  Works for me. Thanks.

refurb 6y ago

It's been amazing just how many high profile crimes have happened in the past few months where the suspect was a repeated offender of serious crimes. And as well, they had often last been arrested in the few months but for some odd reason were immediately released only to commit another serious crime.

heterodoxxed 6y ago
And we're sure that this is statistically different than any other period of time and that the policies of the DA are behind it? Despite this being Hacker News, I see a lot of people here reacting to sensationalist single data points and not a whole lot of discussion about trends on this issue.
- refurb 6y ago
  Not sure how that’s relevant? If people in SF are unsatisfied with policing matters, then recalling their DA seems reasonable whether or not it’s a recent problem or one that’s been on-going. And Chesa hasn’t done himself any favors in his response. The latest issue is pretty disheartening with a women being raped by a guy who had attacked another woman only a few weeks prior.
- throwaway2048 6y ago
  Hacker news is full of reactionary types and has been for a long time
  - refurb 6y ago
    Some woman was attacked and restrained by some guy known to the police then 2.5 months later rapes a woman while wearing an ankle monitor and you're trying to dismiss those concerns as "reactionary"? This is just one example. There is the young woman run over by a driver who had a string of serious crimes in the past. There are others. https://abc7news.com/potrero-hill-attack-san-francisco-crime-woman-attacked-sf-ankle-monitor/10396172/ https://abc7news.com/potrero-hill-attack-san-francisco-crime...

pablooliva 6y ago

Alternative source for Europeans: https://sftimes.com/san-francisco-district-attorney-chesa-boudin-facing-recall-campaign-amid-criticism/ https://sftimes.com/san-francisco-district-attorney-chesa-bo...

simonebrunozzi 6y ago
Thanks. Otherwise, this is what we would get: > Our European visitors are important to us. > This site is currently unavailable to visitors from the European Economic Area while we work to ensure your data is protected in accordance with applicable EU laws.

beowulfey 6y ago

If anyone can prove to me that this is an effect of Chesa Boudin being elected and not, say, a global pandemic causing social distress that led to increased crimes nationwide [1], I might see some justification for this. All I see now is correlation without causation. [1] https://www.npr.org/2021/01/06/953254623/massive-1-year-rise-in-homicide-rates-collided-with-the-pandemic-in-2020 https://www.npr.org/2021/01/06/953254623/massive-1-year-rise...

gnicholas 6y ago
The trend of the pandemic is that homicides are up, but property crimes are down. In SF, violent crimes are down, but property crimes are way up. According to the original article: > When looking closer, city police data shows that violent crimes like homicide, rape and robbery were down in 2020 compared to 2019. However, burglary, arson, and vehicle thefts rose. This contrasts with the trend indicated in the article you posted: > Rosenfeld says there has been some respite since property crimes took a nosedive as the pandemic began. "Burglaries were down. Larcenies were down. You know quarantines kept people at home and burglaries tend to avoid occupied households," he explained. "When the shops are closed, there's no shoplifting, so larceny is reduced." Boudin's controversial policies relate largely to property crimes, and some of the press coverage and outrage resulted from people who were released from custody for property crimes and went on to hurt/kill people soon thereafter.
- beowulfey 6y ago
  To that point, though, property crime and auto theft of SF appears to be lower in 2020 compared to previous years as well. But I did not look into it too deeply. https://sfgov.org/scorecards/public-safety/violent-crime-rate-and-property-crime-rate https://sfgov.org/scorecards/public-safety/violent-crime-rat...
  - gnicholas 6y ago
    Motor vehicle theft was up 36% in 2020 over 2019, and burglary was up 51%. Larceny was down 39%, however. https://www.sanfranciscopolice.org/stay-safe/crime-data/crime-dashboard https://www.sanfranciscopolice.org/stay-safe/crime-data/crim...