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Really not sure what you're trying to say. You admit that the Brits were opposed to the Jewish efforts to establish Israel. In other words, Israel was not estab

Really not sure what you're trying to say. You admit that the Brits were opposed to the Jewish efforts to establish Israel. In other words, Israel was not established with the help of the Brits, but in fact against their opposition, contrary to your original claim. I'm not sure what actions by the US during the 1948 war you refer to. From wikipedia: > This situation caused the United States to withdraw its support for the Partition plan, thus encouraging the Arab League to believe that the Palestinian Arabs, reinforced by the Arab Liberation Army, could put an end to the plan for partition. In other words, US policy actually encouraged the attack on Israel and Arab hopes that they could destroy Israel and subjugate the Jews. The only way US was involved at any later point was as part of the UN efforts to establish a ceasefire, after the Jews successfully defended Israel against the Arab attack. In other words, after the Jews already won. The US allied itself with Israel during the Kennedy administration, i.e. much much later, because Israel won the 1967 war. Either way, your representation that Israel was established based on foreign powers is not supported by any facts. As a side note, one of the most capable armed forces that attacked Israel in 1948 was the Arab Legion, a forced trained, organized, and armed by the British Empire, and commanded by British officers: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab_Legion#1948_Arab%E2%80%93Israeli_War https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab_Legion#1948_Arab%E2%80%93... So much for that argument, then.

boomboomsubban 6y ago
>Really not sure what you're trying to say. You admit that the Brits were opposed to the Jewish efforts to establish Israel. Before WWII, they wanted to maintain Mandatory Palestine. As the breakup of the Empire became obvious during the war, they changed their tune and supported Israel. >The only way US was involved at any later point was as part of the UN efforts to establish a ceasefire, Ignoring the large amount of US arms that ended up in Israel's hands, you act like US stepping in to end the war is a small thing. Prolonging the war would not benefit Israel, and guaranteeing their gains in the aftermath is what gave them the time they needed to truly colonize. >much much later, because Israel won the 1967 war. Kennedy was elected in 1960, and served under a term. > a forced trained, organized, and armed by the British Empire, and commanded by British officers: Obviously, as before that the region was a part of the British Empire. Much of your claims that nobody supported Israel seemed to be based on their resistance to arm the nation. Immediately following WWII, the hope was to limit the ability of such nations to wage war, and guarantee them in case they are invaded. Plus, the west's constant worst fear was arming Israel only for the Kibbutz to take control.
- NeverFade 6y ago
  > As the breakup of the Empire became obvious during the war, they changed their tune and supported Israel. So you're just going to keep repeating this claim, that is backed by zero evidence or facts, and is contradicted by established historical facts which I cited. You claim that Britain decided to support Israel after WWII, which ended in 1945. Yet in 1948, the most powerful military force that attacked Israel was organized, trained, and armed by the British and led by acting British officers: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab_Legion#1948_Arab%E2%80%93Israeli_War https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab_Legion#1948_Arab%E2%80%93... The rest of your claims are likewise false and counterfactual, and you presented no evidence supporting any of them.
  - boomboomsubban 6y ago
    >So you're just going to keep repeating this claim, that is backed by zero evidence or facts, and is contradicted by established historical facts which I cited. None of your facts mention a time past 1942, except the existence of the Arab Legion which I addressed in my last post. As for evidence, the fact that Britain allowed the creation of Israel in their territory is about all you need.
    - NeverFade 6y ago
      There's plenty of evidence that the Brits took anti-Jewish and anti-Israeli actions after 1942 and even 1945. This evidence is in the links I posted, and you haven't read. For example: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_insurgency_in_Mandatory_Palestine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_insurgency_in_Mandatory... links to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Hametz https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Hametz > British troops intervened to stop Operation Hametz, leading to a small battle with the Irgun. The intervention succeeded in preventing a Jewish takeover of Jaffa, while it failed to expel the Irgun from Menashiya due to stiff resistance. To put pressure on Ben-Gurion to rein in the Irgun, British planes flew over Tel Aviv and also bombed Haganah positions in Bat Yam. Eventually the British issued an ultimatum to Ben-Gurion, threatening to bomb Tel Aviv if he didn't stop the Irgun offensive. The next day, an agreement was reached in which Haganah fighters would replace the Irgun in Menashiya, and the Haganah pledged not to attack Jaffa until the end of the Mandate. British troops were allowed to reoccupy the police fort in Menashiya, but the town remained in Jewish hands. So the Brits fought directly against Jewish defense organizations, engaged them in firefights, bombed their positions, bombed Jewish civilians, and threatened to bomb civilians in Tel-Aviv - Israel's effective capital and largest city. All that happened in April-May 1948, just as the Brits were being forced out of Israel. Yet I'm sure you'll keep claiming that Israel was founded with the help and support of the Brits, because you aren't here to debate facts but to promote an agenda.

boomboomsubban 6y ago

>Really not sure what you're trying to say. You admit that the Brits were opposed to the Jewish efforts to establish Israel. Before WWII, they wanted to maintain Mandatory Palestine. As the breakup of the Empire became obvious during the war, they changed their tune and supported Israel. >The only way US was involved at any later point was as part of the UN efforts to establish a ceasefire, Ignoring the large amount of US arms that ended up in Israel's hands, you act like US stepping in to end the war is a small thing. Prolonging the war would not benefit Israel, and guaranteeing their gains in the aftermath is what gave them the time they needed to truly colonize. >much much later, because Israel won the 1967 war. Kennedy was elected in 1960, and served under a term. > a forced trained, organized, and armed by the British Empire, and commanded by British officers: Obviously, as before that the region was a part of the British Empire. Much of your claims that nobody supported Israel seemed to be based on their resistance to arm the nation. Immediately following WWII, the hope was to limit the ability of such nations to wage war, and guarantee them in case they are invaded. Plus, the west's constant worst fear was arming Israel only for the Kibbutz to take control.

NeverFade 6y ago
> As the breakup of the Empire became obvious during the war, they changed their tune and supported Israel. So you're just going to keep repeating this claim, that is backed by zero evidence or facts, and is contradicted by established historical facts which I cited. You claim that Britain decided to support Israel after WWII, which ended in 1945. Yet in 1948, the most powerful military force that attacked Israel was organized, trained, and armed by the British and led by acting British officers: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab_Legion#1948_Arab%E2%80%93Israeli_War https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab_Legion#1948_Arab%E2%80%93... The rest of your claims are likewise false and counterfactual, and you presented no evidence supporting any of them.
- boomboomsubban 6y ago
  >So you're just going to keep repeating this claim, that is backed by zero evidence or facts, and is contradicted by established historical facts which I cited. None of your facts mention a time past 1942, except the existence of the Arab Legion which I addressed in my last post. As for evidence, the fact that Britain allowed the creation of Israel in their territory is about all you need.
  - NeverFade 6y ago
    There's plenty of evidence that the Brits took anti-Jewish and anti-Israeli actions after 1942 and even 1945. This evidence is in the links I posted, and you haven't read. For example: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_insurgency_in_Mandatory_Palestine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_insurgency_in_Mandatory... links to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Hametz https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Hametz > British troops intervened to stop Operation Hametz, leading to a small battle with the Irgun. The intervention succeeded in preventing a Jewish takeover of Jaffa, while it failed to expel the Irgun from Menashiya due to stiff resistance. To put pressure on Ben-Gurion to rein in the Irgun, British planes flew over Tel Aviv and also bombed Haganah positions in Bat Yam. Eventually the British issued an ultimatum to Ben-Gurion, threatening to bomb Tel Aviv if he didn't stop the Irgun offensive. The next day, an agreement was reached in which Haganah fighters would replace the Irgun in Menashiya, and the Haganah pledged not to attack Jaffa until the end of the Mandate. British troops were allowed to reoccupy the police fort in Menashiya, but the town remained in Jewish hands. So the Brits fought directly against Jewish defense organizations, engaged them in firefights, bombed their positions, bombed Jewish civilians, and threatened to bomb civilians in Tel-Aviv - Israel's effective capital and largest city. All that happened in April-May 1948, just as the Brits were being forced out of Israel. Yet I'm sure you'll keep claiming that Israel was founded with the help and support of the Brits, because you aren't here to debate facts but to promote an agenda.