4 ms·

Hmm being and remaining a Jewish state is the very cornerstone of Israel and Israeli Palestinian conflict. Otherwise they could have just agreed to the right to

Hmm being and remaining a Jewish state is the very cornerstone of Israel and Israeli Palestinian conflict. Otherwise they could have just agreed to the right to return and ended the whole thing

dogma1138 6y ago
Even if the Jewish state status wouldn’t be an issue right of return will never happen it would be a social and economic suicide. This isn’t the German unification it’s not even the possible Korean unification there is really no way to deal with it other than grant Palestinian refugees an actual refugee status and settle them. Keep in mind even the PA doesn’t want to grant RoR to refugees many of them weren’t refugees from the land that is now Israel but wasn’t pre-1967 or even 1948, many of them escaped from what is now the West Bank, some one their own, some due to Israeli pressure some due to Jordanian pressure.
- AzzieElbab 6y ago
  But that is the entire point. Of course PA doesn’t want refugees to resettle in the West Bank, they want them to return to Israel main. Two states solution means completely different things depending on who you are talking to. To the Palestinians it means two Arab states
- bjourne 6y ago
  In the 1990s, over a million Jews from the former Soviet Union settled in Israel. We should be clear about that. It is technically possible for the Palestinians to return. What prevents them from returning is deeply entrenched racism: "In 2009, 72 percent named a Jewish majority as one of their two leading values, versus 71 percent in 2007, while 36 percent and 29 percent, respectively, named Greater Israel as a leading value. Democracy has been losing public support in the last five years. In 2009, 35 percent of the population opted for democracy as their most or the second most important value; in contrast in 2005, 60 percent of respondents chose democracy as their most or the second most important value." https://reliefweb.int/report/israel/vox-populi-trends-israeli-public-opinion-national-security-2004-2009 https://reliefweb.int/report/israel/vox-populi-trends-israel...
  - AzzieElbab 6y ago
    There are 2 millions Arabs living in Israel right now. If you add 5 millions refugees, Israel(9m total population) will no longer be Jewish state. Which is what I said in the first post. RoR simply will never be realised. You can call it whatever you wish, but to Israel it is basically a suicide
    - bjourne 6y ago
      Never say never. In my experience, when people say "it will never happen" what they mean is that they hope it will never happen. But you are correct that as long as Israel continues to be an apartheid state that values Jewish life over non-Jewish, the Palestinian refugees will not be allowed to return to their homeland. However, just like the South African apartheid system was dismantled in the 1990s, so can the Israeli apartheid system. Most people didn't believe it would ever happen until it did. And just like in South Africa, there are Israeli dissidents who are not happy with the racist nature of their state. It's up to the world to support them.
      - AzzieElbab 6y ago
        My money is on Israel. Sorry.
      - helge9210 6y ago
        > state that values Jewish life over non-Jewish This statement is especially funny in the light of the current election campaign where Orthodox parties compare all non-orthodox Jews to dogs.
    - nickik 6y ago
      > You can call it whatever you wish, but to Israel it is basically a suicide If you just repeat something often enough people start to believe it. And in reality most of those people wouldn't want to come back anyway. And of course, what really is unbelievable is that Israel claims the right to return for literally every Jew in the world, despite most of them having no connection what so ever to Israel for 1000s of years. Israel actively engages in a demographic battle where the recruit Jews form around the world, to come to Israel. In Ukraine, if you can prove even some Jews in your family try, you might get a passport for Israel and a nice place to live in Westbank. Lets be clear here, this is not about what can and can not be done. This is about what leaders of a Apartheit state want to be the case. Its not surprising an Apartheit state doesn't want to remove itself. Its profoundly fucked up that somebody 1000 of miles away from Israel who was never there had 'the right to return' and those people who grew up there don't.
power78 6y ago
Such a pointless comment. No country would ever give up, no matter who they are. The Palestinians don't ever want a peaceful agreement, they want Israel gone. Therefore there will always be a conflict.

Hmm being and remaining a Jewish state is the very cornerstone of Israel and Israeli Palestinian conflict. Otherwise they could have just agreed to the right to return and ended the whole thing

dogma1138 6y ago

Even if the Jewish state status wouldn’t be an issue right of return will never happen it would be a social and economic suicide. This isn’t the German unification it’s not even the possible Korean unification there is really no way to deal with it other than grant Palestinian refugees an actual refugee status and settle them. Keep in mind even the PA doesn’t want to grant RoR to refugees many of them weren’t refugees from the land that is now Israel but wasn’t pre-1967 or even 1948, many of them escaped from what is now the West Bank, some one their own, some due to Israeli pressure some due to Jordanian pressure.

AzzieElbab 6y ago
But that is the entire point. Of course PA doesn’t want refugees to resettle in the West Bank, they want them to return to Israel main. Two states solution means completely different things depending on who you are talking to. To the Palestinians it means two Arab states
bjourne 6y ago
In the 1990s, over a million Jews from the former Soviet Union settled in Israel. We should be clear about that. It is technically possible for the Palestinians to return. What prevents them from returning is deeply entrenched racism: "In 2009, 72 percent named a Jewish majority as one of their two leading values, versus 71 percent in 2007, while 36 percent and 29 percent, respectively, named Greater Israel as a leading value. Democracy has been losing public support in the last five years. In 2009, 35 percent of the population opted for democracy as their most or the second most important value; in contrast in 2005, 60 percent of respondents chose democracy as their most or the second most important value." https://reliefweb.int/report/israel/vox-populi-trends-israeli-public-opinion-national-security-2004-2009 https://reliefweb.int/report/israel/vox-populi-trends-israel...
- AzzieElbab 6y ago
  There are 2 millions Arabs living in Israel right now. If you add 5 millions refugees, Israel(9m total population) will no longer be Jewish state. Which is what I said in the first post. RoR simply will never be realised. You can call it whatever you wish, but to Israel it is basically a suicide
  - bjourne 6y ago
    Never say never. In my experience, when people say "it will never happen" what they mean is that they hope it will never happen. But you are correct that as long as Israel continues to be an apartheid state that values Jewish life over non-Jewish, the Palestinian refugees will not be allowed to return to their homeland. However, just like the South African apartheid system was dismantled in the 1990s, so can the Israeli apartheid system. Most people didn't believe it would ever happen until it did. And just like in South Africa, there are Israeli dissidents who are not happy with the racist nature of their state. It's up to the world to support them.
    - AzzieElbab 6y ago
      My money is on Israel. Sorry.
    - helge9210 6y ago
      > state that values Jewish life over non-Jewish This statement is especially funny in the light of the current election campaign where Orthodox parties compare all non-orthodox Jews to dogs.
  - nickik 6y ago
    > You can call it whatever you wish, but to Israel it is basically a suicide If you just repeat something often enough people start to believe it. And in reality most of those people wouldn't want to come back anyway. And of course, what really is unbelievable is that Israel claims the right to return for literally every Jew in the world, despite most of them having no connection what so ever to Israel for 1000s of years. Israel actively engages in a demographic battle where the recruit Jews form around the world, to come to Israel. In Ukraine, if you can prove even some Jews in your family try, you might get a passport for Israel and a nice place to live in Westbank. Lets be clear here, this is not about what can and can not be done. This is about what leaders of a Apartheit state want to be the case. Its not surprising an Apartheit state doesn't want to remove itself. Its profoundly fucked up that somebody 1000 of miles away from Israel who was never there had 'the right to return' and those people who grew up there don't.

power78 6y ago

Such a pointless comment. No country would ever give up, no matter who they are. The Palestinians don't ever want a peaceful agreement, they want Israel gone. Therefore there will always be a conflict.