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From: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colonialism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colonialism : > Colonialism is where one country assumes political control over a

From: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colonialism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colonialism : > Colonialism is where one country assumes political control over another, often by establishing colonies and generally with the aim of economic dominance. The Jews after WWII weren't a country. They were a group of refugees and holocaust survivors. They created a country for themselves in Israel since they had nowhere else to go. Comparing them to rich powerful nations like the British Empire, which took over other nations to gain even more wealth and power, is dishonest propaganda. Per the definition, Israel is not a colony.

boomboomsubban 6y ago
>They created a country for themselves in Israel This is where this breaks down. Without support from Britain, France, and the United States the Palestinian majority would not have allowed the formation of Israel. There are slight differences from traditional colonialism, as there are a few countries working together and the colonists aren't necessarily from those countries. But it still broadly fits that definition.
- NeverFade 6y ago
  As I've addressed in previous comments: none of these nations actually helped Israel at all in its early days. The British in fact actively fought against the formation of Israel, by forcibly preventing incoming Jewish immigration, and actively fighting against the Jewish defense groups that were to be the Jews' only defense against the Arabs who attacked them once the Brits left in 1948: https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/british-restrictions-on-jewish-immigration-to-palestine https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/british-restrictions-on... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_insurgency_in_Mandatory_Palestine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_insurgency_in_Mandatory... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Paper_of_1939 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Paper_of_1939 The US enforced an arms embargo against Israel starting from 1948, and only became its ally after it won a major victory in 1967, proving it to be a valuable regional ally. Still, the main point is that this isn't colonialism, because Israel isn't a colony of any other country or power.
  - boomboomsubban 6y ago
    >Jewish immigration, and actively fighting against the Jewish defense groups that were to be the Jews' only defense against the Arabs who attacked them once the Brits left in 1948: Yes, while they were fine maintaining their empire they opposed a Jewish state. Sometime during or after the war their policy shifted as they would rather not give such prime land over to a group certain to be bitter over their very recent mistreatment. Better to support the colonization of outsiders and make them dependent on you militarily. And as for the US, you ignore their role in stopping the 1948 war, their role in the Tripartite alliance, and Kennedy's beginning of the military alliance.
    - NeverFade 6y ago
      Really not sure what you're trying to say. You admit that the Brits were opposed to the Jewish efforts to establish Israel. In other words, Israel was not established with the help of the Brits, but in fact against their opposition, contrary to your original claim. I'm not sure what actions by the US during the 1948 war you refer to. From wikipedia: > This situation caused the United States to withdraw its support for the Partition plan, thus encouraging the Arab League to believe that the Palestinian Arabs, reinforced by the Arab Liberation Army, could put an end to the plan for partition. In other words, US policy actually encouraged the attack on Israel and Arab hopes that they could destroy Israel and subjugate the Jews. The only way US was involved at any later point was as part of the UN efforts to establish a ceasefire, after the Jews successfully defended Israel against the Arab attack. In other words, after the Jews already won. The US allied itself with Israel during the Kennedy administration, i.e. much much later, because Israel won the 1967 war. Either way, your representation that Israel was established based on foreign powers is not supported by any facts. As a side note, one of the most capable armed forces that attacked Israel in 1948 was the Arab Legion, a forced trained, organized, and armed by the British Empire, and commanded by British officers: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab_Legion#1948_Arab%E2%80%93Israeli_War https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab_Legion#1948_Arab%E2%80%93... So much for that argument, then.
      - boomboomsubban 6y ago
- reissbaker 6y ago
  I think you are profoundly misinformed on this topic. Britain, in particular, was violently opposed to the formation State of Israel, and the invading armies of Lebanon, Syria, Egypt, and Jordan were in part led by British forces. Similarly, although the US now is closely aligned with Israel, it disavowed the partition plan prior to the Arab invasion. The country that (ironically, given later alliances) gave the most direct military support to Israel in 1948 was the USSR under Stalin.
  - nickik 6y ago
    This is the case. Britain had learn that the Zionists were pretty insane group. It was them that started suicide bombing the British to make them leave, so they could start the exact war they later did.
    - reissbaker 6y ago
      It was them that started suicide bombing Source, please? The Haganah, Irgun, and Lehi did carry out bombings — as did many, many other groups ruled over by the British, not just Jewish ones, so why that's particularly "insane" seems hard to discern — but I don't believe any of the attacks were suicide bombings. Suicide bombings were first introduced by Hezbollah in the 1980s in Lebanon. https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/suicide-terrorism https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/suicide-terrorism

boomboomsubban 6y ago

>They created a country for themselves in Israel This is where this breaks down. Without support from Britain, France, and the United States the Palestinian majority would not have allowed the formation of Israel. There are slight differences from traditional colonialism, as there are a few countries working together and the colonists aren't necessarily from those countries. But it still broadly fits that definition.

NeverFade 6y ago
As I've addressed in previous comments: none of these nations actually helped Israel at all in its early days. The British in fact actively fought against the formation of Israel, by forcibly preventing incoming Jewish immigration, and actively fighting against the Jewish defense groups that were to be the Jews' only defense against the Arabs who attacked them once the Brits left in 1948: https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/british-restrictions-on-jewish-immigration-to-palestine https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/british-restrictions-on... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_insurgency_in_Mandatory_Palestine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_insurgency_in_Mandatory... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Paper_of_1939 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Paper_of_1939 The US enforced an arms embargo against Israel starting from 1948, and only became its ally after it won a major victory in 1967, proving it to be a valuable regional ally. Still, the main point is that this isn't colonialism, because Israel isn't a colony of any other country or power.
- boomboomsubban 6y ago
  >Jewish immigration, and actively fighting against the Jewish defense groups that were to be the Jews' only defense against the Arabs who attacked them once the Brits left in 1948: Yes, while they were fine maintaining their empire they opposed a Jewish state. Sometime during or after the war their policy shifted as they would rather not give such prime land over to a group certain to be bitter over their very recent mistreatment. Better to support the colonization of outsiders and make them dependent on you militarily. And as for the US, you ignore their role in stopping the 1948 war, their role in the Tripartite alliance, and Kennedy's beginning of the military alliance.
  - NeverFade 6y ago
    Really not sure what you're trying to say. You admit that the Brits were opposed to the Jewish efforts to establish Israel. In other words, Israel was not established with the help of the Brits, but in fact against their opposition, contrary to your original claim. I'm not sure what actions by the US during the 1948 war you refer to. From wikipedia: > This situation caused the United States to withdraw its support for the Partition plan, thus encouraging the Arab League to believe that the Palestinian Arabs, reinforced by the Arab Liberation Army, could put an end to the plan for partition. In other words, US policy actually encouraged the attack on Israel and Arab hopes that they could destroy Israel and subjugate the Jews. The only way US was involved at any later point was as part of the UN efforts to establish a ceasefire, after the Jews successfully defended Israel against the Arab attack. In other words, after the Jews already won. The US allied itself with Israel during the Kennedy administration, i.e. much much later, because Israel won the 1967 war. Either way, your representation that Israel was established based on foreign powers is not supported by any facts. As a side note, one of the most capable armed forces that attacked Israel in 1948 was the Arab Legion, a forced trained, organized, and armed by the British Empire, and commanded by British officers: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab_Legion#1948_Arab%E2%80%93Israeli_War https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab_Legion#1948_Arab%E2%80%93... So much for that argument, then.
    - boomboomsubban 6y ago
reissbaker 6y ago
I think you are profoundly misinformed on this topic. Britain, in particular, was violently opposed to the formation State of Israel, and the invading armies of Lebanon, Syria, Egypt, and Jordan were in part led by British forces. Similarly, although the US now is closely aligned with Israel, it disavowed the partition plan prior to the Arab invasion. The country that (ironically, given later alliances) gave the most direct military support to Israel in 1948 was the USSR under Stalin.
- nickik 6y ago
  This is the case. Britain had learn that the Zionists were pretty insane group. It was them that started suicide bombing the British to make them leave, so they could start the exact war they later did.
  - reissbaker 6y ago
    It was them that started suicide bombing Source, please? The Haganah, Irgun, and Lehi did carry out bombings — as did many, many other groups ruled over by the British, not just Jewish ones, so why that's particularly "insane" seems hard to discern — but I don't believe any of the attacks were suicide bombings. Suicide bombings were first introduced by Hezbollah in the 1980s in Lebanon. https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/suicide-terrorism https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/suicide-terrorism