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> The financial industry[...] is undermining one of the country’s largest sources of affordable housing. 1. Yeah, I made an opinionated omission there. Sue me

> The financial industry[...] is undermining one of the country’s largest sources of affordable housing. 1. Yeah, I made an opinionated omission there. Sue me :D 2. That last part (the country’s largest sources of affordable housing) is even more damning than the rest. :( In a country that big, and that rich, with a frontier ethos like that, how the f*k does anyone think this is acceptable?

FooHentai 6y ago
Acceptable that trailer parks are the country's most affordable housing, or that it's being allowed to be squeezed for profit?
- black_puppydog 6y ago
  Fair question IMO. Of course trailer parks are (hopefully) always among the most affordable housing options. However, living in one should be a choice of the individual, and the fact that there is a notable population in these places tells me that these are not exactly free choices à la "I shall live frugally" but rather a systemic problem. So: "acceptable that trailer parks are more than a mere curiosity of vanishing proportion in the story of housing in the US in 2021."
CalRobert 6y ago
Building a basic house is pretty simple. Larry Haun put out a great book with Habitat for Humanity to do it for about $40,000, and irishvernacular.com/ outlines how to do it for €25,000. But we induce scarcity in the housing market because if everyone had a comfortable, decent home, they might not work so hard, would they? Imagine how much less value would be created for assetholders, how much less stuff we would make, if families felt free to survive on one income.
- quickthrowman 6y ago
  > Building a basic house is pretty simple. Larry Haun put out a great book with Habitat for Humanity to do it for about $40,000 Sure, if you have free labor. I’d guess 99%+ of houses were built by a paid crew, so uh, it does not cost just 40k for a house. It costs $200/sq ft to build a house (in a midsize metro area of 3 million), without buying land.
  - dylan604 6y ago
    There are certain aspects of building a house that I would have no problem doing myself. Besides the steps that would require more than 2 hands, there are also other tasks that I would rather have someone else do. Proper grading of the area the house is to be situated would be one. Digging the trenchs for the foundation or drilling the holes for the pier & beam posts would be another. After that, I have performed all of the other steps in various stages.
- fiftyfifty 6y ago
  Well there's the cost of the land the house is sitting on, in many places with a high cost of living the land is the scarce part.
  - CalRobert 6y ago
    Land you can build on is scarce, but if we made it easier to demolish existing structures and change use from, say, parking to housing, this would be ameliorated. If you try to buy a single family home in San Francisco and demolish it in favour of 8 apartments you'll find people opposed to this, though.
- Afton 6y ago
  Is this really how you view it? Like, you think that people are plotting how to induce scarcity in the market so that they will work harder? That doesn't seem like a useful framing of the problem.
  - decebalus1 6y ago
    > Like, you think that people are plotting how to induce scarcity in the market so that they will work harder? Yes. Believe it or not, there are lot of people (especially people in positions of authority/power) that believe this type of scarcity drives labor, ambition, society, etc.. forward. I mean just look at the current discussion about minimum wage and/or stimulus checks. But with real estate, I kind of agree with you, It can be a little far fetched to extend that mentality to housing scarcity. Housing scarcity is just because current owners want to have the value kept in real estate increasing. Hard to do when there's no scarcity. Only wannabe owners complain about housing prices.
  - hinkley 6y ago
    Of I don’t look down while I’m walking, am I guiltless for what I step on?
  - CalRobert 6y ago
    I think it's a a convenient accident more than an intentional outcome, but one that established homeowners and assetholders benefit from so it's encouraged. If nothing else, can you actually imagine a politician celebrating houses going down in price? Picture yourself walking up to a podium and announcing that the average 3 bed 2 bath in San Jose is now only $200,000, and what a fantastic achievement this is and how it will help people who have struggled to afford a home. What reaction do you get? Homeowners would be crying for blood because, whether they care to admit it or not, when it comes time to sell they want 2+ other people working their asses off and saving every penny they can to just _barely_ be able to put in a bid. I _am_ a homeowner, albeit of a cheap house, but I'd love to see prices fall because I wouldn't mind a second one. A spot on a couple acres near Portland might be nice, and some of them don't look too bad...
    - 6y ago
blackrock 6y ago
The fox is guarding the henhouse. The politicians themselves are benefitting from the situation. So why would they change it?
- SavantIdiot 6y ago
  Who exactly is benefiting? I'd love to have this card in my back pocket for debates. Are there specific politicians we can draw-and-quarter over this? Or was your statement just a generic "all politicians bad" rant with no real citations?
  - uihududhmd 6y ago
    US Political donation data https://www.opensecrets.org/industries/indus.php?ind=F10 https://www.opensecrets.org/industries/indus.php?ind=F10 Article from the guardian about US Senators investments https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/sep/19/us-senators-investments-conflict-of-interest https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/sep/19/us-senators-... Investment portfolios of some Indian politicians. I'm not familiar with the politics of India. https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/wealth/plan/what-do-politicians-invest-in-heres-a-look-at-the-portfolios-of-8/articleshow/68962389.cms https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/wealth/plan/what-do-pol... In general, wealthy of all stripes are invested in real estate to some degree. "Land - they're not making any more of it"
    - SavantIdiot 6y ago
      Nice. Great data. We need to hold them accountable, but with so much other stuff on fire in the country (US, at least), it is hard to focus attention.

FooHentai 6y ago

Acceptable that trailer parks are the country's most affordable housing, or that it's being allowed to be squeezed for profit?

black_puppydog 6y ago
Fair question IMO. Of course trailer parks are (hopefully) always among the most affordable housing options. However, living in one should be a choice of the individual, and the fact that there is a notable population in these places tells me that these are not exactly free choices à la "I shall live frugally" but rather a systemic problem. So: "acceptable that trailer parks are more than a mere curiosity of vanishing proportion in the story of housing in the US in 2021."

CalRobert 6y ago

Building a basic house is pretty simple. Larry Haun put out a great book with Habitat for Humanity to do it for about $40,000, and irishvernacular.com/ outlines how to do it for €25,000. But we induce scarcity in the housing market because if everyone had a comfortable, decent home, they might not work so hard, would they? Imagine how much less value would be created for assetholders, how much less stuff we would make, if families felt free to survive on one income.

quickthrowman 6y ago
> Building a basic house is pretty simple. Larry Haun put out a great book with Habitat for Humanity to do it for about $40,000 Sure, if you have free labor. I’d guess 99%+ of houses were built by a paid crew, so uh, it does not cost just 40k for a house. It costs $200/sq ft to build a house (in a midsize metro area of 3 million), without buying land.
- dylan604 6y ago
  There are certain aspects of building a house that I would have no problem doing myself. Besides the steps that would require more than 2 hands, there are also other tasks that I would rather have someone else do. Proper grading of the area the house is to be situated would be one. Digging the trenchs for the foundation or drilling the holes for the pier & beam posts would be another. After that, I have performed all of the other steps in various stages.
fiftyfifty 6y ago
Well there's the cost of the land the house is sitting on, in many places with a high cost of living the land is the scarce part.
- CalRobert 6y ago
  Land you can build on is scarce, but if we made it easier to demolish existing structures and change use from, say, parking to housing, this would be ameliorated. If you try to buy a single family home in San Francisco and demolish it in favour of 8 apartments you'll find people opposed to this, though.
Afton 6y ago
Is this really how you view it? Like, you think that people are plotting how to induce scarcity in the market so that they will work harder? That doesn't seem like a useful framing of the problem.
- decebalus1 6y ago
  > Like, you think that people are plotting how to induce scarcity in the market so that they will work harder? Yes. Believe it or not, there are lot of people (especially people in positions of authority/power) that believe this type of scarcity drives labor, ambition, society, etc.. forward. I mean just look at the current discussion about minimum wage and/or stimulus checks. But with real estate, I kind of agree with you, It can be a little far fetched to extend that mentality to housing scarcity. Housing scarcity is just because current owners want to have the value kept in real estate increasing. Hard to do when there's no scarcity. Only wannabe owners complain about housing prices.
- hinkley 6y ago
  Of I don’t look down while I’m walking, am I guiltless for what I step on?
- CalRobert 6y ago
  I think it's a a convenient accident more than an intentional outcome, but one that established homeowners and assetholders benefit from so it's encouraged. If nothing else, can you actually imagine a politician celebrating houses going down in price? Picture yourself walking up to a podium and announcing that the average 3 bed 2 bath in San Jose is now only $200,000, and what a fantastic achievement this is and how it will help people who have struggled to afford a home. What reaction do you get? Homeowners would be crying for blood because, whether they care to admit it or not, when it comes time to sell they want 2+ other people working their asses off and saving every penny they can to just _barely_ be able to put in a bid. I _am_ a homeowner, albeit of a cheap house, but I'd love to see prices fall because I wouldn't mind a second one. A spot on a couple acres near Portland might be nice, and some of them don't look too bad...
  - 6y ago

blackrock 6y ago

The fox is guarding the henhouse. The politicians themselves are benefitting from the situation. So why would they change it?

SavantIdiot 6y ago
Who exactly is benefiting? I'd love to have this card in my back pocket for debates. Are there specific politicians we can draw-and-quarter over this? Or was your statement just a generic "all politicians bad" rant with no real citations?
- uihududhmd 6y ago
  US Political donation data https://www.opensecrets.org/industries/indus.php?ind=F10 https://www.opensecrets.org/industries/indus.php?ind=F10 Article from the guardian about US Senators investments https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/sep/19/us-senators-investments-conflict-of-interest https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/sep/19/us-senators-... Investment portfolios of some Indian politicians. I'm not familiar with the politics of India. https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/wealth/plan/what-do-politicians-invest-in-heres-a-look-at-the-portfolios-of-8/articleshow/68962389.cms https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/wealth/plan/what-do-pol... In general, wealthy of all stripes are invested in real estate to some degree. "Land - they're not making any more of it"
  - SavantIdiot 6y ago
    Nice. Great data. We need to hold them accountable, but with so much other stuff on fire in the country (US, at least), it is hard to focus attention.