4 ms·

> when you live in Europe that has been one of the most peaceful regions on Earth for the past 30 years Transnistria, Yugoslavia, Georgia, Ukraine. Not really

> when you live in Europe that has been one of the most peaceful regions on Earth for the past 30 years Transnistria, Yugoslavia, Georgia, Ukraine. Not really peaceful. > Try doing that as an Israeli civilian in a bomb shelter, hearing Hezbollah/Hamas rockets explode in your city. As an Israeli civilian I say: if you hear rockets explode you chose a wrong city to live at. You have to understand that Gaza is kind of concentration camp and significant portion of Gaza population are arabs forcefully displaced from villages in Gaza-Ashdod-BeerSheba triangle. Do you expect them to just agree with "facts on the ground" and do nothing?

NeverFade 6y ago
> Transnistria, Yugoslavia, Georgia, Ukraine. All these are on the edge of Europe. Europe as a whole, including Western, Central, Northern, and even most of Eastern Europe, has been incredibly peaceful. > As an Israeli civilian I say: if you hear rockets explode you chose a wrong city to live at. Ah, so it's perfectly acceptable to you when rockets hit some Israeli cities, where the poorer Israelis live. You are fine with that, because you can afford to live in Tel-Aviv, and you're always happy to virtue-signal at the expense of your fellow citizens who aren't as fortunate as yourself. Most nations have a strong sense of solidarity among their civilians. No poor Texan looked at 9/11 and said "those rich elites in NYC deserved it!". Neither will liberals in NYC accept it if some poor Texan border town is bombed by a Mexican militia. Your attitude is morally despicable and simply indefensible.
- Apocryphon 6y ago
  Given the incredibly polarized state of American politics and society over the past decade, especially the last five years, I don't think that comparison is as true as it was twenty years ago. Probably not the most cogent comparison these days.
  - NeverFade 6y ago
    American society has polarized, it is true. Still, I believe only a tiny fringe minority will openly claim indifference to the WTC attacks because they haven't affected them personally. Much less show any support for the terrorists who committed these attacks.
    - Apocryphon 6y ago
      At this point it's not even indifference, it's more like animosity between different regions and different segments of society. When was the last time anyone stormed the Knesset?
      - NeverFade 6y ago
        Do you live in the US? I do. The US is home to 350,000,000 people. If you gather the craziest of these in one small place, you'll have enough force to storm a (poorly defended) Capitol. The US always had various fringe, a-social and anti-social groups. Still, Americans do largely share a sense of identity, especially against a common external threat. To judge by some of the comments here, perhaps to a greater extent than Israeli society currently does.
        Apocryphon 6y ago
        Netanyahu has been PM for over a decade, is that really accurate?
- helge9210 6y ago
  > Ah, so it's perfectly acceptable to you when rockets hit some Israeli cities, where the poorer Israelis live. If it's acceptable for them, who am I to judge? Election after election they vote for the party (Likud) that does consider Hamas a viable partner, transfers them hundreds of millions USD in cash and refuses to support any alternative government in Gaza.
  - NeverFade 6y ago
    Nations rise and fall based on a sense of common identity, solidarity, and shared fate. Your comment revealed the complete breakdown of these necessary elements. As someone who has enormous sympathy for the suffering of the Jewish people, and Israel as a response to that, I do hope that there are very few of you in Israel. Otherwise, Israel will disintegrate, and you will discover that when you demonstrate smug selfish indifference to rockets hitting your fellow citizens, those same rockets will eventually hit you too.
    - helge9210 6y ago
      > for the suffering of the Jewish people, and Israel as a response to that You do understand, that Israel was established by people, who didn't suffer in Holocaust, but still demanded retribution from Arabs, who weren't responsible for Holocaust, right? A lot of Holocaust survivors were afraid to admit it until 90-ties for the reason they were considered sub-humans by fellow Israelis. > sense of common identity Please, be kind and explain to me, what common identity can be between me, secular son of Ashkenazi Jew, and minister Deri, Moroccan Arab of Jewish religion, who considers my father as good as dead since he married my non-jewish mother?

NeverFade 6y ago

> Transnistria, Yugoslavia, Georgia, Ukraine. All these are on the edge of Europe. Europe as a whole, including Western, Central, Northern, and even most of Eastern Europe, has been incredibly peaceful. > As an Israeli civilian I say: if you hear rockets explode you chose a wrong city to live at. Ah, so it's perfectly acceptable to you when rockets hit some Israeli cities, where the poorer Israelis live. You are fine with that, because you can afford to live in Tel-Aviv, and you're always happy to virtue-signal at the expense of your fellow citizens who aren't as fortunate as yourself. Most nations have a strong sense of solidarity among their civilians. No poor Texan looked at 9/11 and said "those rich elites in NYC deserved it!". Neither will liberals in NYC accept it if some poor Texan border town is bombed by a Mexican militia. Your attitude is morally despicable and simply indefensible.

Apocryphon 6y ago
Given the incredibly polarized state of American politics and society over the past decade, especially the last five years, I don't think that comparison is as true as it was twenty years ago. Probably not the most cogent comparison these days.
- NeverFade 6y ago
  American society has polarized, it is true. Still, I believe only a tiny fringe minority will openly claim indifference to the WTC attacks because they haven't affected them personally. Much less show any support for the terrorists who committed these attacks.
  - Apocryphon 6y ago
    At this point it's not even indifference, it's more like animosity between different regions and different segments of society. When was the last time anyone stormed the Knesset?
    - NeverFade 6y ago
      Do you live in the US? I do. The US is home to 350,000,000 people. If you gather the craziest of these in one small place, you'll have enough force to storm a (poorly defended) Capitol. The US always had various fringe, a-social and anti-social groups. Still, Americans do largely share a sense of identity, especially against a common external threat. To judge by some of the comments here, perhaps to a greater extent than Israeli society currently does.
      - Apocryphon 6y ago
        Netanyahu has been PM for over a decade, is that really accurate?
helge9210 6y ago
> Ah, so it's perfectly acceptable to you when rockets hit some Israeli cities, where the poorer Israelis live. If it's acceptable for them, who am I to judge? Election after election they vote for the party (Likud) that does consider Hamas a viable partner, transfers them hundreds of millions USD in cash and refuses to support any alternative government in Gaza.
- NeverFade 6y ago
  Nations rise and fall based on a sense of common identity, solidarity, and shared fate. Your comment revealed the complete breakdown of these necessary elements. As someone who has enormous sympathy for the suffering of the Jewish people, and Israel as a response to that, I do hope that there are very few of you in Israel. Otherwise, Israel will disintegrate, and you will discover that when you demonstrate smug selfish indifference to rockets hitting your fellow citizens, those same rockets will eventually hit you too.
  - helge9210 6y ago
    > for the suffering of the Jewish people, and Israel as a response to that You do understand, that Israel was established by people, who didn't suffer in Holocaust, but still demanded retribution from Arabs, who weren't responsible for Holocaust, right? A lot of Holocaust survivors were afraid to admit it until 90-ties for the reason they were considered sub-humans by fellow Israelis. > sense of common identity Please, be kind and explain to me, what common identity can be between me, secular son of Ashkenazi Jew, and minister Deri, Moroccan Arab of Jewish religion, who considers my father as good as dead since he married my non-jewish mother?