3 ms·

I have a very stupid naive question: can a green grid supply enough energy to power a hadron collider, that kind of huge scientific R&D things ? It seems wind a

I have a very stupid naive question: can a green grid supply enough energy to power a hadron collider, that kind of huge scientific R&D things ? It seems wind and solar can provide for the normal grid but what about industries hungry for a lot of throughtput ? Huge batteries ? How does it work ?

Armisael16 6y ago
You just build more solar panels/wind turbines/geothermal/whatever. Why wouldn’t renewables be able to scale?
- johnchristopher 6y ago
  In my very child-like view of how electricity works you need sustained massive input to feed massive machines. Like we need boosters that are really powerful to lift us off from earth's gravity well, that's why we can't hook up our space shuttles to an outlet in the wall because it doesn't deliver enough raw power.
  - Armisael16 6y ago
    I mean, yeah, you do. Why wouldn't renewables be able to power a grid that runs those things? CERN doesn't have an on-site power plant - it just hooks into the European grid via a French substation (it also has a connection to a Swiss substation as a partial backup, but it isn't used during normal operation).
thinkcontext 6y ago
CERN is like any other big customer of the grid. They have very specialized technology on their premises but they shouldn't have to really care how the electricity they consume is generated. The point of "the grid" is that it is able to serve all the customers plugged into it. If "the green grid" isn't able to serve CERN, then it will have failed many other customers as well.
- johnchristopher 6y ago
  > The point of "the grid" is that it is able to serve all the customers plugged into it. Ah, thanks. I somehow thought they'd be more special than this and required more attention. I think it's because of pop scifi tv show where scientists do some experiments and the building gets dark half the time after that because “of the enormous amount of energy required to teleport this cat in time or behind the wall“. > During LHC operations, the CERN site draws roughly 200 MW of electrical power from the French electrical grid, which, for comparison, is about one-third the energy consumption of the city of Geneva; the LHC accelerator and detectors draw about 120 MW thereof.[34] Each day of its operation generates 140 terabytes of data.[35]
GlennS 6y ago
For an industry or science experiment which needs a large burst of power - big enough that the electricity grid can't normally supply it - you'd usually have a large bank of capacitors. You charge those capacitors slowly over time and then discharge all the energy you stored in them quickly. Alternatively, you can tell the grid operator that you're about to draw more power (probably paying them for the privilege), and they can in turn pay some standby generation to turn on at the same time. I don't know whether the Large Hadron Collider needs this. Other than that, electricity is electricity for the most part. It's all run through transformers to have the same voltage and frequency. Some generation sources are also good because you can turn them on and off quickly (dispatchability), or because they help to keep the grid A.C. frequency and voltage stable. Batteries are also great for both of these. Usually the grid operator pays some generators to provide these services.
- johnchristopher 6y ago
  Thanks, I have a better picture of how things click now.

Armisael16 6y ago

You just build more solar panels/wind turbines/geothermal/whatever. Why wouldn’t renewables be able to scale?

johnchristopher 6y ago
In my very child-like view of how electricity works you need sustained massive input to feed massive machines. Like we need boosters that are really powerful to lift us off from earth's gravity well, that's why we can't hook up our space shuttles to an outlet in the wall because it doesn't deliver enough raw power.
- Armisael16 6y ago
  I mean, yeah, you do. Why wouldn't renewables be able to power a grid that runs those things? CERN doesn't have an on-site power plant - it just hooks into the European grid via a French substation (it also has a connection to a Swiss substation as a partial backup, but it isn't used during normal operation).

thinkcontext 6y ago

CERN is like any other big customer of the grid. They have very specialized technology on their premises but they shouldn't have to really care how the electricity they consume is generated. The point of "the grid" is that it is able to serve all the customers plugged into it. If "the green grid" isn't able to serve CERN, then it will have failed many other customers as well.

johnchristopher 6y ago
> The point of "the grid" is that it is able to serve all the customers plugged into it. Ah, thanks. I somehow thought they'd be more special than this and required more attention. I think it's because of pop scifi tv show where scientists do some experiments and the building gets dark half the time after that because “of the enormous amount of energy required to teleport this cat in time or behind the wall“. > During LHC operations, the CERN site draws roughly 200 MW of electrical power from the French electrical grid, which, for comparison, is about one-third the energy consumption of the city of Geneva; the LHC accelerator and detectors draw about 120 MW thereof.[34] Each day of its operation generates 140 terabytes of data.[35]

GlennS 6y ago

For an industry or science experiment which needs a large burst of power - big enough that the electricity grid can't normally supply it - you'd usually have a large bank of capacitors. You charge those capacitors slowly over time and then discharge all the energy you stored in them quickly. Alternatively, you can tell the grid operator that you're about to draw more power (probably paying them for the privilege), and they can in turn pay some standby generation to turn on at the same time. I don't know whether the Large Hadron Collider needs this. Other than that, electricity is electricity for the most part. It's all run through transformers to have the same voltage and frequency. Some generation sources are also good because you can turn them on and off quickly (dispatchability), or because they help to keep the grid A.C. frequency and voltage stable. Batteries are also great for both of these. Usually the grid operator pays some generators to provide these services.

johnchristopher 6y ago
Thanks, I have a better picture of how things click now.