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> Thanks for demonstrating, once again, that biased attacks against Israel are heavily laced with Antisemitism. Antisemitism is such a tired strawman. Am I ac

> Thanks for demonstrating, once again, that biased attacks against Israel are heavily laced with Antisemitism. Antisemitism is such a tired strawman. Am I accused of sinophobia if I critique the CCP? Of course not. But critique of Israel is so often interpreted as 'antisemetic'. Please think more carefully about using 'antisemitism'. Israeli power does not represent all Jews - and calling 'antisemitism' to deflect critique of it is just disrespectful to the lived experience of historically oppressed Jewish people everywhere.

NeverFade 6y ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_Nations_resolutions_concerning_Israel https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_Nations_resolut... > As of 2013, Israel had been condemned in 45 resolutions by the United Nations Human Rights Council. Since the creation of the Council in 2006, it has resolved almost more resolutions condemning Israel than on the rest of the world combined. The 45 resolutions comprised almost half (45.9%) of all country-specific resolutions passed by the Council So Israel, a tiny nation, received almost half of all condemnations by HRC. Far more than nations like China, Russia, and Syria, which are currently involved in human rights violations on a massive scale, including (in the case of Syria) genocide by using WMDs against civilian population. It's abundantly clear that Israel is singled out for "special treatment", and when you see Neo Nazis in Germany protesting in favor of BDS, it's also abundantly clear why: https://www.haaretz.com/world-news/.premium-why-neo-nazis-love-the-bds-movement-so-much-1.7372611 https://www.haaretz.com/world-news/.premium-why-neo-nazis-lo... The "moral argument" against Israel is laced with Antisemitic bias through and through, and it's not particularly hard to see when top comments even in this discussion are talking about the "many dirty tricks" used by Israeli Jews as a group.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- core-questions 6y ago
  > So Israel, a tiny nation, received almost half of all condemnations by HRC. > It's abundantly clear that Israel is singled out for "special treatment" No, what is abundantly clear is that Israel is a state that engages in supremacist tactics, land grabs, war crimes, and is essentially occupying vast tracts of stolen Palestinian land. Everyone knows it, but because of people like yourself who fling the accusation of "antisemitism" against anyone who dares question your neocon war machine, nobody can say it. There would be far more condemnations against Israel from nations all over the planet if it didn't have such disastrous consequences, politically, to do so. Look at the tip of the iceberg for what happens when someone goes up against your feisty little nation: https://www.scmp.com/news/asia/diplomacy/article/2145304/japan-pm-shinzo-abe-served-dessert-shoe-still-enjoyed-dinner https://www.scmp.com/news/asia/diplomacy/article/2145304/jap... They served the PM of Japan food out of a shoe. A tremendously offensive, targeted act of personal humiliation. Many such stories. Any attempt to push back on this ruins careers and lives. Not a surprise that many of the people most vehemently against free speech are your countrymen - you have the most to lose, because if people can freely discuss things from the Balfour Declaration through the Suez Crisis, the USS Liberty, the first and second Gulf Wars, etc. with the positions and actions of your country accurately accounted, you look pretty bad. Much better to clamp down on discussion and call any serious dialogue on the topic Hate Speech so as to avoid having to answer difficult questions. The defense always comes down to "if you don't agree with Israel's foreign policy, you're Anti-Semitic, and therefore a Neo-Nazi", and it's a weak and tired defense. It doesn't work when the people that are calling you out are diverse and have well-researched positions. Much like America, your nation has sins to atone for, except I don't see any honest dialogue on the topic emerging. Perhaps you personally could learn how to be a voice for change instead of a partisan troll.
  - emmelaich 6y ago
    > They served the PM of Japan food out of a shoe. A tremendously offensive, targeted ..... Uhm, it was served to everyone at the table. Hardly targeted.
    - core-questions 6y ago
      Completely untrue. https://www.jpost.com/israel-news/culture/japanese-pm-abe-served-offensive-shoe-dessert-at-netanyahu-dinner-553671 https://www.jpost.com/israel-news/culture/japanese-pm-abe-se... > “This was a stupid and insensitive decision,” a senior Israeli diplomat, who had previously served in Japan, told Yediot Aharonot. “There is nothing more despised in Japanese culture than shoes. Not only do they not enter their houses while wearing shoes, you will not find shoes in their offices either. Even the prime minister, ministers and members of parliament do not wear shoes to work... It is equivalent to serving a Jewish guest chocolates in a dish shaped like a pig.”
      - emmelaich 6y ago
        What was untrue? It WAS served to everyone at the table. You can see it in the picture.
- marshmallow_12 6y ago
  Doesn't look like facts deserve a place on the discussion table Never.
  - NeverFade 6y ago
    Yes, my comments keep getting flagged, even though they are mostly just quotes from reputable sources. This is clear abuse of the flagging system to silence dissenting arguments. At least they are proving themselves to be acting in bad faith.
    - jasonwatkinspdx 6y ago
      Your comment above is clearly flagged and downvoted due to being transparent whattaboutism. You aren't making substantive arguments of dissent, you're just spamming a wikipedia quote with your own editorializing after it.
      - NeverFade 6y ago
        I am pointing out a blatant double-standard. The fact that HRC is not condemning egregious mass violators like China, Russia, and Syria, and focuses all its attention on Israel, shows they are not honestly trying to enforce any standard in good faith, they're just trying to attack Israel. That, together with the well-documented participation of Neo Nazi and other openly Antisemitic groups in movements that criticize Israel, shows that criticizing Israel is often linked to biased prejudice against Israel and Jews. Either way, your subjective disagreement with my post is not cause for flagging, which is supposed to be reserved to objectionable content that violates basic rules against SPAM etc. Users are supposed to downvote posts they simply disagree with, not flag them. Nothing in my posts violates any rules, and their flagging is a clear example of abuse.
        jasonwatkinspdx 6y ago
        The HRC does condem those, you're just trying to cherry pick a naive statistic as some sort of slam dunk proof while deflecting from the banal reason that Israel gets criticized a lot because it keeps doing terrible things. It's possible to have informed views on this stuff without the jingoistic nonsense.
zo1 6y ago
While we're on that topic - how about not being able to criticize black culture without being accused of racism.
todipa 6y ago
> Antisemitism is such a tired strawman. Am I accused of sinophobia if I critique the CCP? Of course not. But critique of Israel is so often interpreted as 'antisemetic'. In one you criticizing a ruling party, in the other you are criticizing the only majority Jewish country in the world. Your statement itself isn't anti-Semitic but highly ignorant of the key differences. I don't intend to change your views nor biases but I hope you are able to reflect on what you wrote.
blablabla123 6y ago
> Am I accused of sinophobia if I critique the CCP? Of course not. But critique of Israel is so often interpreted as 'antisemetic'. Do you have concrete examples? I am getting tired as well of hearing this statement. Usually it's an answer to not much differentiated and thoughtless criticism. (Disclaimer: I'm from Germany and this discussion underwent unbelievable depths over here)

NeverFade 6y ago

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_Nations_resolutions_concerning_Israel https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_Nations_resolut... > As of 2013, Israel had been condemned in 45 resolutions by the United Nations Human Rights Council. Since the creation of the Council in 2006, it has resolved almost more resolutions condemning Israel than on the rest of the world combined. The 45 resolutions comprised almost half (45.9%) of all country-specific resolutions passed by the Council So Israel, a tiny nation, received almost half of all condemnations by HRC. Far more than nations like China, Russia, and Syria, which are currently involved in human rights violations on a massive scale, including (in the case of Syria) genocide by using WMDs against civilian population. It's abundantly clear that Israel is singled out for "special treatment", and when you see Neo Nazis in Germany protesting in favor of BDS, it's also abundantly clear why: https://www.haaretz.com/world-news/.premium-why-neo-nazis-love-the-bds-movement-so-much-1.7372611 https://www.haaretz.com/world-news/.premium-why-neo-nazis-lo... The "moral argument" against Israel is laced with Antisemitic bias through and through, and it's not particularly hard to see when top comments even in this discussion are talking about the "many dirty tricks" used by Israeli Jews as a group.

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
core-questions 6y ago
> So Israel, a tiny nation, received almost half of all condemnations by HRC. > It's abundantly clear that Israel is singled out for "special treatment" No, what is abundantly clear is that Israel is a state that engages in supremacist tactics, land grabs, war crimes, and is essentially occupying vast tracts of stolen Palestinian land. Everyone knows it, but because of people like yourself who fling the accusation of "antisemitism" against anyone who dares question your neocon war machine, nobody can say it. There would be far more condemnations against Israel from nations all over the planet if it didn't have such disastrous consequences, politically, to do so. Look at the tip of the iceberg for what happens when someone goes up against your feisty little nation: https://www.scmp.com/news/asia/diplomacy/article/2145304/japan-pm-shinzo-abe-served-dessert-shoe-still-enjoyed-dinner https://www.scmp.com/news/asia/diplomacy/article/2145304/jap... They served the PM of Japan food out of a shoe. A tremendously offensive, targeted act of personal humiliation. Many such stories. Any attempt to push back on this ruins careers and lives. Not a surprise that many of the people most vehemently against free speech are your countrymen - you have the most to lose, because if people can freely discuss things from the Balfour Declaration through the Suez Crisis, the USS Liberty, the first and second Gulf Wars, etc. with the positions and actions of your country accurately accounted, you look pretty bad. Much better to clamp down on discussion and call any serious dialogue on the topic Hate Speech so as to avoid having to answer difficult questions. The defense always comes down to "if you don't agree with Israel's foreign policy, you're Anti-Semitic, and therefore a Neo-Nazi", and it's a weak and tired defense. It doesn't work when the people that are calling you out are diverse and have well-researched positions. Much like America, your nation has sins to atone for, except I don't see any honest dialogue on the topic emerging. Perhaps you personally could learn how to be a voice for change instead of a partisan troll.
- emmelaich 6y ago
  > They served the PM of Japan food out of a shoe. A tremendously offensive, targeted ..... Uhm, it was served to everyone at the table. Hardly targeted.
  - core-questions 6y ago
    Completely untrue. https://www.jpost.com/israel-news/culture/japanese-pm-abe-served-offensive-shoe-dessert-at-netanyahu-dinner-553671 https://www.jpost.com/israel-news/culture/japanese-pm-abe-se... > “This was a stupid and insensitive decision,” a senior Israeli diplomat, who had previously served in Japan, told Yediot Aharonot. “There is nothing more despised in Japanese culture than shoes. Not only do they not enter their houses while wearing shoes, you will not find shoes in their offices either. Even the prime minister, ministers and members of parliament do not wear shoes to work... It is equivalent to serving a Jewish guest chocolates in a dish shaped like a pig.”
    - emmelaich 6y ago
      What was untrue? It WAS served to everyone at the table. You can see it in the picture.
marshmallow_12 6y ago
Doesn't look like facts deserve a place on the discussion table Never.
- NeverFade 6y ago
  Yes, my comments keep getting flagged, even though they are mostly just quotes from reputable sources. This is clear abuse of the flagging system to silence dissenting arguments. At least they are proving themselves to be acting in bad faith.
  - jasonwatkinspdx 6y ago
    Your comment above is clearly flagged and downvoted due to being transparent whattaboutism. You aren't making substantive arguments of dissent, you're just spamming a wikipedia quote with your own editorializing after it.
    - NeverFade 6y ago
      I am pointing out a blatant double-standard. The fact that HRC is not condemning egregious mass violators like China, Russia, and Syria, and focuses all its attention on Israel, shows they are not honestly trying to enforce any standard in good faith, they're just trying to attack Israel. That, together with the well-documented participation of Neo Nazi and other openly Antisemitic groups in movements that criticize Israel, shows that criticizing Israel is often linked to biased prejudice against Israel and Jews. Either way, your subjective disagreement with my post is not cause for flagging, which is supposed to be reserved to objectionable content that violates basic rules against SPAM etc. Users are supposed to downvote posts they simply disagree with, not flag them. Nothing in my posts violates any rules, and their flagging is a clear example of abuse.
      - jasonwatkinspdx 6y ago
        The HRC does condem those, you're just trying to cherry pick a naive statistic as some sort of slam dunk proof while deflecting from the banal reason that Israel gets criticized a lot because it keeps doing terrible things. It's possible to have informed views on this stuff without the jingoistic nonsense.

zo1 6y ago

While we're on that topic - how about not being able to criticize black culture without being accused of racism.

todipa 6y ago

> Antisemitism is such a tired strawman. Am I accused of sinophobia if I critique the CCP? Of course not. But critique of Israel is so often interpreted as 'antisemetic'. In one you criticizing a ruling party, in the other you are criticizing the only majority Jewish country in the world. Your statement itself isn't anti-Semitic but highly ignorant of the key differences. I don't intend to change your views nor biases but I hope you are able to reflect on what you wrote.

blablabla123 6y ago

> Am I accused of sinophobia if I critique the CCP? Of course not. But critique of Israel is so often interpreted as 'antisemetic'. Do you have concrete examples? I am getting tired as well of hearing this statement. Usually it's an answer to not much differentiated and thoughtless criticism. (Disclaimer: I'm from Germany and this discussion underwent unbelievable depths over here)