6 ms·

Do we want equality in this area? Should we change schooling to make it easier for boys than girls until we get to 50/50 achievement? Or should we retain the st

by ipnon 6y ago

Do we want equality in this area? Should we change schooling to make it easier for boys than girls until we get to 50/50 achievement? Or should we retain the status quo to boost the chances of women succeeding later in their lives when they do not achieve in their careers at the same level as men?

TrackerFF 6y ago
In some countries, various (college/uni) majors/programs have their own quotas or bonus "entrance points" for gender, if the majors are very unbalanced. If/when over time this balance gets closer to 50/50, those quotas/points are removed.
tomp 6y ago
I often considered that... in particular, because I (as a white male) am more bothered by the girl-boy discrepancy than by the black-white-Asian discrepancy (in the US). Why? Is it just self-serving prioritization? Reflecting more, I don't think it is. I'm naively assuming that the girl-boy difference is likely biological (either female brains are different than male brains, or the differences in sex & reproduction result in equivalent human brains pursuing different life strategies in different bodies), while black-white-Asian difference is likely social, probably related to culture and poverty level (i.e. no brain differences). It follows that in order to optimize for social good & progress, we should adapt the education system so that both female-ish and male-ish types of brains flourish (note that there is likely significant overlap) yet we should help people out of poverty (which might involve changing education, but also probably other, much more significant efforts) and change culture (make schooling & achievement more important and popular) to reduce white-black-Asian gap.
ganzuul 6y ago
Yes. No. No. We have known what the problem is and what the solution is for a long time. - Standard curriculum for non-standard children, and finding out what makes a child special and encouraging that at the expense of other things.
BlargMcLarg 6y ago
Don't disadvantage young men for the troubles older generations have caused. They did not want to be the scapegoat of women of older generations being held back by society in any form. Frankly, all the quotas and other artificial constructions to help women should already tip people off that disadvantaging young men further will only cause more and more resentment.
_-david-_ 6y ago
I think the best situation would be to mostly separate boys and girls in classes. We could then do things for boys that are generally better for boys and do things for girls that are generally better for girls. There probably should be co-ed schools so boys and girls can still socialize during lunch and other breaks, just not during classes.
- ipnon 6y ago
  One problem: separate public education for boys and girls is illegal in the US.
  - _-david-_ 6y ago
    There are non-coed schools (not sure about coed schools but segregated classes like I am advocating for?) in the US. Not sure if only private schools are allowed to do that?
- audunw 6y ago
  But some girls are like boys, and some boys are like girls in this regard. Gender differences fall on a spectrum.
  - _-david-_ 6y ago
    No matter what we do some people will not have an ideal education. I think this will maximize the education that works for the most kids. The only way we can actually have an ideal education would be to have 1 teacher per student. That is not really practical.
    - jl2718 6y ago
      Or let them choose. See “Summerhill”.
7_my_mind 6y ago
This won't sound very PC, but despite all the bullshit about equality, men need to be better than women. Women demand that men are better than women. If we are going to end up with a situation where women have higher income potentials than men, nobody will be happy. Women will feel like they cannot find anyone suitable and men will feel like they are inadequate.
- Der_Einzige 6y ago
  You're right on this one, and I hope you don't see mass downvotes for this. Men are physically stronger and more athletic on average, and it's so extreme that hilarious stories like this [1] come out when top-tier female athletes try to compete against men in some sports. Woman simply do not want to be working the same kind of manual labor jobs at the rate that that men have for this reason, and it would be extremely bad for society if we attempted to fix this "inequality". But it's even more pronounced in dating/sexual patterns. Most women do not want to be "dominant" and this lack of "dominant" women is a huge problem for men who consider themselves to be "submissive". It's a very talked about issue for men in BDSM communities. And it's even more well known how a majority of women find it very hot to be "dominated" e.g. lightly choked [2]. Women simply will not prefer a society where men on average are not the "dominant" gender, at least in key aspects of society such as the bedroom or in labor intensive work. [1] https://www.cbssports.com/soccer/news/a-dallas-fc-under-15-boys-squad-beat-the-u-s-womens-national-team-in-a-scrimmage/ https://www.cbssports.com/soccer/news/a-dallas-fc-under-15-b... [2] https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2014/11/03/study-up-to-60-percent-of-women-fantasize-about-being-dominated/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2014/11/0...
  - 7_my_mind 6y ago
    It is also true of incomes which is mostly what I was talking about. Women strongly prefer men with higher earning potential than themselves, and this preference increases as financial incomes of women increase.[1] A society where women cannot find husbands with higher earning potentials would create a marriage crisis. [1] https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/jomf.12372 https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/jomf.12372

by ipnon 6y ago

TrackerFF 6y ago

In some countries, various (college/uni) majors/programs have their own quotas or bonus "entrance points" for gender, if the majors are very unbalanced. If/when over time this balance gets closer to 50/50, those quotas/points are removed.

tomp 6y ago

I often considered that... in particular, because I (as a white male) am more bothered by the girl-boy discrepancy than by the black-white-Asian discrepancy (in the US). Why? Is it just self-serving prioritization? Reflecting more, I don't think it is. I'm naively assuming that the girl-boy difference is likely biological (either female brains are different than male brains, or the differences in sex & reproduction result in equivalent human brains pursuing different life strategies in different bodies), while black-white-Asian difference is likely social, probably related to culture and poverty level (i.e. no brain differences). It follows that in order to optimize for social good & progress, we should adapt the education system so that both female-ish and male-ish types of brains flourish (note that there is likely significant overlap) yet we should help people out of poverty (which might involve changing education, but also probably other, much more significant efforts) and change culture (make schooling & achievement more important and popular) to reduce white-black-Asian gap.

ganzuul 6y ago

Yes. No. No. We have known what the problem is and what the solution is for a long time. - Standard curriculum for non-standard children, and finding out what makes a child special and encouraging that at the expense of other things.

BlargMcLarg 6y ago

Don't disadvantage young men for the troubles older generations have caused. They did not want to be the scapegoat of women of older generations being held back by society in any form. Frankly, all the quotas and other artificial constructions to help women should already tip people off that disadvantaging young men further will only cause more and more resentment.

_-david-_ 6y ago

I think the best situation would be to mostly separate boys and girls in classes. We could then do things for boys that are generally better for boys and do things for girls that are generally better for girls. There probably should be co-ed schools so boys and girls can still socialize during lunch and other breaks, just not during classes.

ipnon 6y ago
One problem: separate public education for boys and girls is illegal in the US.
- _-david-_ 6y ago
  There are non-coed schools (not sure about coed schools but segregated classes like I am advocating for?) in the US. Not sure if only private schools are allowed to do that?
audunw 6y ago
But some girls are like boys, and some boys are like girls in this regard. Gender differences fall on a spectrum.
- _-david-_ 6y ago
  No matter what we do some people will not have an ideal education. I think this will maximize the education that works for the most kids. The only way we can actually have an ideal education would be to have 1 teacher per student. That is not really practical.
  - jl2718 6y ago
    Or let them choose. See “Summerhill”.

7_my_mind 6y ago

This won't sound very PC, but despite all the bullshit about equality, men need to be better than women. Women demand that men are better than women. If we are going to end up with a situation where women have higher income potentials than men, nobody will be happy. Women will feel like they cannot find anyone suitable and men will feel like they are inadequate.

Der_Einzige 6y ago
You're right on this one, and I hope you don't see mass downvotes for this. Men are physically stronger and more athletic on average, and it's so extreme that hilarious stories like this [1] come out when top-tier female athletes try to compete against men in some sports. Woman simply do not want to be working the same kind of manual labor jobs at the rate that that men have for this reason, and it would be extremely bad for society if we attempted to fix this "inequality". But it's even more pronounced in dating/sexual patterns. Most women do not want to be "dominant" and this lack of "dominant" women is a huge problem for men who consider themselves to be "submissive". It's a very talked about issue for men in BDSM communities. And it's even more well known how a majority of women find it very hot to be "dominated" e.g. lightly choked [2]. Women simply will not prefer a society where men on average are not the "dominant" gender, at least in key aspects of society such as the bedroom or in labor intensive work. [1] https://www.cbssports.com/soccer/news/a-dallas-fc-under-15-boys-squad-beat-the-u-s-womens-national-team-in-a-scrimmage/ https://www.cbssports.com/soccer/news/a-dallas-fc-under-15-b... [2] https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2014/11/03/study-up-to-60-percent-of-women-fantasize-about-being-dominated/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2014/11/0...
- 7_my_mind 6y ago
  It is also true of incomes which is mostly what I was talking about. Women strongly prefer men with higher earning potential than themselves, and this preference increases as financial incomes of women increase.[1] A society where women cannot find husbands with higher earning potentials would create a marriage crisis. [1] https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/jomf.12372 https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/jomf.12372