5 ms·

But at the end of the day, PoW is simply a fee that users of the network pay (in the form of inflation) to secure the network. I'm not convinced it's really a d

by xur17 6y ago

But at the end of the day, PoW is simply a fee that users of the network pay (in the form of inflation) to secure the network. I'm not convinced it's really a distribution mechanism.

ronsor 6y ago
Is the network so secure if relatively few groups hold most of the power? The danger of 51% attacks[0] is well known. [0] https://dci.mit.edu/51-attacks https://dci.mit.edu/51-attacks
- kleer001 6y ago
  Any discussion of 51% attacks that ignores the game theory of it I think misses the original genius of the Bitcoin white paper. If one has control of 51% of the network it's in one's best interest to keep that network going successfully. Sure, there's suicidal malcontents and those that just want chaos. But barring some brain cancer it's very difficult for individuals to throw away billions of dollars. Because if a 51% attack works it's not going to work for long, the corrupted blocks are going to be immediately known, and everyone else will just fork off and leave that 51% attacker holding the bag.
  - pazimzadeh 6y ago
    You could say the same thing about infectious disease. The most successful diseases don't kill you, they just sap your energy a little bit at a time. What is the equivalent of parasites in blockchain-land?
    - atweiden 6y ago
      > What is the equivalent of parasites in blockchain-land? It’s the people insinuating impropriety of Proof-of-Work mining in the hopes of less than transparently promoting a competing premined/ICO’d Proof-of-Stake cryptocurrency sans any form of disclosure statement. You know, the sort of thing that’s been plaguing the cryptocurrency space for a good, solid decade now?
      - pazimzadeh 6y ago
        Aw buddy. You couldn't spare putting $100 in the Ethereum pre-sale? Anyway I'm not talking about direct competition, I'm talking about parasitism.
        atweiden 6y ago
        > I'm talking about parasitism. Much if not all of the anti–Proof-of-Work narrative and the debunking thereof can be characterized by Brandolini’s law [1]. ITT “Sure, the overwhelming majority of `$COIN` was premined by insiders or sold to prestigious investors for pennies in exclusive pre-ICOs, but look over there — Bitcoin mining is oh-so-unfair. Disclosure statement? What’s that?” All the financially-motivated disbursal of misinformation takes a considerable amount of time to debunk, hence the parasitism component. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brandolini%27s_law https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brandolini%27s_law
        pazimzadeh 6y ago
        10% is not a majority. I would be ok with Bitcoin having had a 10% pre-mine if it also had a pre-sale, rather than limiting it to those technical enough to mine it on day one.
        atweiden 6y ago
        > I would be ok with Bitcoin having had a 10% pre-mine if it also had a pre-sale, rather than limiting it to those technical enough to mine it on day one. “On day one” it was possible to CPU mine Bitcoin on any ordinary Windows PC using a freely available open source GUI application.
        pazimzadeh 6y ago
        To this day the UI for just sending transactions is pretty bad, so I can't imagine how bad it was on day one. I am interested to see a screenshot, if you could share.

by xur17 6y ago

But at the end of the day, PoW is simply a fee that users of the network pay (in the form of inflation) to secure the network. I'm not convinced it's really a distribution mechanism.

ronsor 6y ago

Is the network so secure if relatively few groups hold most of the power? The danger of 51% attacks[0] is well known. [0] https://dci.mit.edu/51-attacks https://dci.mit.edu/51-attacks

kleer001 6y ago
Any discussion of 51% attacks that ignores the game theory of it I think misses the original genius of the Bitcoin white paper. If one has control of 51% of the network it's in one's best interest to keep that network going successfully. Sure, there's suicidal malcontents and those that just want chaos. But barring some brain cancer it's very difficult for individuals to throw away billions of dollars. Because if a 51% attack works it's not going to work for long, the corrupted blocks are going to be immediately known, and everyone else will just fork off and leave that 51% attacker holding the bag.
- pazimzadeh 6y ago
  You could say the same thing about infectious disease. The most successful diseases don't kill you, they just sap your energy a little bit at a time. What is the equivalent of parasites in blockchain-land?
  - atweiden 6y ago
    > What is the equivalent of parasites in blockchain-land? It’s the people insinuating impropriety of Proof-of-Work mining in the hopes of less than transparently promoting a competing premined/ICO’d Proof-of-Stake cryptocurrency sans any form of disclosure statement. You know, the sort of thing that’s been plaguing the cryptocurrency space for a good, solid decade now?
    - pazimzadeh 6y ago
      Aw buddy. You couldn't spare putting $100 in the Ethereum pre-sale? Anyway I'm not talking about direct competition, I'm talking about parasitism.
      - atweiden 6y ago
        > I'm talking about parasitism. Much if not all of the anti–Proof-of-Work narrative and the debunking thereof can be characterized by Brandolini’s law [1]. ITT “Sure, the overwhelming majority of `$COIN` was premined by insiders or sold to prestigious investors for pennies in exclusive pre-ICOs, but look over there — Bitcoin mining is oh-so-unfair. Disclosure statement? What’s that?” All the financially-motivated disbursal of misinformation takes a considerable amount of time to debunk, hence the parasitism component. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brandolini%27s_law https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brandolini%27s_law
        pazimzadeh 6y ago
        10% is not a majority. I would be ok with Bitcoin having had a 10% pre-mine if it also had a pre-sale, rather than limiting it to those technical enough to mine it on day one.
        atweiden 6y ago
        > I would be ok with Bitcoin having had a 10% pre-mine if it also had a pre-sale, rather than limiting it to those technical enough to mine it on day one. “On day one” it was possible to CPU mine Bitcoin on any ordinary Windows PC using a freely available open source GUI application.
        pazimzadeh 6y ago
        To this day the UI for just sending transactions is pretty bad, so I can't imagine how bad it was on day one. I am interested to see a screenshot, if you could share.