7 ms·

Foreign powers did not create Israel. Jews did. > carved out a new action state to give to Native Americans I rather like the idea that Native Americans could

Foreign powers did not create Israel. Jews did. > carved out a new action state to give to Native Americans I rather like the idea that Native Americans could have their own country if they choose, as Jews do now, something better than reservations. China and Russia have nothing to do with it.

0x49fa98 6y ago
that must be why the Mizrahi are treated so well in their own country https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mizrahi_Jews#Disparities_and_integration https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mizrahi_Jews#Disparities_and_i...
- NeverFade 6y ago
  Love it when a bunch of new users join the discussion to spread anti-Israeli propaganda. Israel isn't perfect, and has its own internal tensions, much like the US, UK, Canada, Australia, and basically every other nation. Trying to use these tensions as a wholesale argument against Israel is like claiming Sweden is an illegitimate country since it's going through social tensions and unrest due to immigration right now.
  - captain_price7 6y ago
    > Love it when a bunch of new users join the discussion to spread anti-Israeli propaganda. You've made like 10 comments in this thread. I'm not accusing you of anything. But before you accuse others of "propaganda", maybe take a look at yourself and see who's behaving somewhat suspiciously in this thread.
    - zthrowaway 6y ago
      Participating in a discussion on a topic you have knowledge around is suspicious now?
    - NeverFade 6y ago
      I've made probably 30 comments in the last thread in which I participated, which had exactly zero to do with Israel. Unlike these new users, I have a history of comments on the site, and I have not joined today just to engage in this very specific thread. Yet you try to paint me as the suspicious one...
  - bjourne 6y ago
    > Israel isn't perfect, and has its own internal tensions, much like the US, UK, Canada, Australia, and basically every other nation. The level of racism in Israel is unique among Western nations: * 53% of Israelis say Arabs should be encouraged to leave. Only 51% think they deserve equal rights. 46% say that they would not want to live near Arabs [1]. * 52% of Israeli Jews thinks African migrants are "a cancer" [2]. * 96% of Israeli Jews would be uncomfortable with their child marrying a Muslim, 89% say this about a Christian [3] * 72% of all Israeli Jews thinks it is more important to keep Israel a Jewish majority than to keep Israel democratic [4]. [1] https://www.jpost.com/national-news/53-percent-of-israelis-say-arabs-should-be-encouraged-to-leave-197436 https://www.jpost.com/national-news/53-percent-of-israelis-s... [2] https://www.timesofisrael.com/most-israeli-jews-agree-africans-are-a-cancer/ https://www.timesofisrael.com/most-israeli-jews-agree-africa... [3] https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2016/04/04/religious-groups-in-israel-keep-to-themselves-when-it-comes-to-marriages-and-friendships-2/ https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2016/04/04/religious-g... [4] https://www.dohainstitute.org/en/lists/ACRPS-PDFDocumentLibrary/An_Analysis_of_Israeli_public.pdf https://www.dohainstitute.org/en/lists/ACRPS-PDFDocumentLibr... > Trying to use these tensions as a wholesale argument against Israel is like claiming Sweden is an illegitimate country since it's going through social tensions and unrest due to immigration right now. The tell-tale sign of a right-wing bigot is that they use the uninformed "what about Sweden!"-argument. The idea that immigration of brown-skinned people is a threat to their country because, apparently, and unknown to most Swedes, immigration has caused Sweden to collapse.
    - dvh1990 6y ago
      You are judging Israel by American standards. The US is a country of immigrants whose national pride is not based on actual nationality. Israel is meant to be more like Japan, not like the US: A country for Jews. Expecting what is essentially a nationalist country to simply accept other nationalities/religions as citizens is disrespectful. You could make the same racist argument about Japan, but would you do that?
      - bjourne 6y ago
        My "judgement" is that it is abhorrent to view African asylum seekers who flee war-torn countries as "cancer". I don't think that is an American standard. I don't think it is disrespectful to claim that it is racist to compare humans with cancer.
  - 0x49fa98 6y ago
    its not anti-Israeli to refute the statement "Foreign powers did not create Israel. Jews did." by pointing out the actual Middle Eastern Jews who lived in the region are the ones doing the worst in modern Israel
arken 6y ago
Forgive me, but that’s a pretty one sided view to take. The local Jewish population was certainly instrumental as were Zionist groups in the UK and elsewhere. But you’re fooling yourself if you think great power diplomacy and the region’s colonial history weren’t also important factors. I’d encourage you to look into the history of the British mandate, the Balfour Declaration, and the lead up to the 1947 Partition Plan/1948 War. It’s a fascinating story if nothing else.
- NeverFade 6y ago
  The British mandate authorities outlawed all Jewish defense forces and tried to confiscate all arms from the Jewish population before they left the region. They also actively prevented Jews from immigrating to Israel: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_insurgency_in_Mandatory_Palestine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_insurgency_in_Mandatory... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Paper_of_1939 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Paper_of_1939 https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/british-restrictions-on-jewish-immigration-to-palestine https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/british-restrictions-on... To claim that the British were "a foreign power" that helped the budding nation of Israel is, simply put, the opposite of historical fact.
  - arken 6y ago
    That doesn’t mean the British state played no role. Are you saying the Balfour Declaration had no impact on developments in the region from 1917-1947? I’m not saying the formation of Israel was 100% the result of intentional British foreign policy. Foreign policy is messy and inconsistent. The various actors in the region were seeking different things at different times. Yes the British were in some cases trying to disarm Jewish militants, but in many cases they were also the ones who had handed out the arms in the first place (eg. The Jewish Brigade). I don’t see how you can dispute that this a messy, contested historical saga with many factors to consider. I urge you to read more widely on this topic. If you’re so certain that your position is the correct one, you stand only to confirm your existing beliefs.
    - NeverFade 6y ago

0x49fa98 6y ago

that must be why the Mizrahi are treated so well in their own country https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mizrahi_Jews#Disparities_and_integration https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mizrahi_Jews#Disparities_and_i...

NeverFade 6y ago
Love it when a bunch of new users join the discussion to spread anti-Israeli propaganda. Israel isn't perfect, and has its own internal tensions, much like the US, UK, Canada, Australia, and basically every other nation. Trying to use these tensions as a wholesale argument against Israel is like claiming Sweden is an illegitimate country since it's going through social tensions and unrest due to immigration right now.
- captain_price7 6y ago
  > Love it when a bunch of new users join the discussion to spread anti-Israeli propaganda. You've made like 10 comments in this thread. I'm not accusing you of anything. But before you accuse others of "propaganda", maybe take a look at yourself and see who's behaving somewhat suspiciously in this thread.
  - zthrowaway 6y ago
    Participating in a discussion on a topic you have knowledge around is suspicious now?
  - NeverFade 6y ago
    I've made probably 30 comments in the last thread in which I participated, which had exactly zero to do with Israel. Unlike these new users, I have a history of comments on the site, and I have not joined today just to engage in this very specific thread. Yet you try to paint me as the suspicious one...
- bjourne 6y ago
  > Israel isn't perfect, and has its own internal tensions, much like the US, UK, Canada, Australia, and basically every other nation. The level of racism in Israel is unique among Western nations: * 53% of Israelis say Arabs should be encouraged to leave. Only 51% think they deserve equal rights. 46% say that they would not want to live near Arabs [1]. * 52% of Israeli Jews thinks African migrants are "a cancer" [2]. * 96% of Israeli Jews would be uncomfortable with their child marrying a Muslim, 89% say this about a Christian [3] * 72% of all Israeli Jews thinks it is more important to keep Israel a Jewish majority than to keep Israel democratic [4]. [1] https://www.jpost.com/national-news/53-percent-of-israelis-say-arabs-should-be-encouraged-to-leave-197436 https://www.jpost.com/national-news/53-percent-of-israelis-s... [2] https://www.timesofisrael.com/most-israeli-jews-agree-africans-are-a-cancer/ https://www.timesofisrael.com/most-israeli-jews-agree-africa... [3] https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2016/04/04/religious-groups-in-israel-keep-to-themselves-when-it-comes-to-marriages-and-friendships-2/ https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2016/04/04/religious-g... [4] https://www.dohainstitute.org/en/lists/ACRPS-PDFDocumentLibrary/An_Analysis_of_Israeli_public.pdf https://www.dohainstitute.org/en/lists/ACRPS-PDFDocumentLibr... > Trying to use these tensions as a wholesale argument against Israel is like claiming Sweden is an illegitimate country since it's going through social tensions and unrest due to immigration right now. The tell-tale sign of a right-wing bigot is that they use the uninformed "what about Sweden!"-argument. The idea that immigration of brown-skinned people is a threat to their country because, apparently, and unknown to most Swedes, immigration has caused Sweden to collapse.
  - dvh1990 6y ago
    You are judging Israel by American standards. The US is a country of immigrants whose national pride is not based on actual nationality. Israel is meant to be more like Japan, not like the US: A country for Jews. Expecting what is essentially a nationalist country to simply accept other nationalities/religions as citizens is disrespectful. You could make the same racist argument about Japan, but would you do that?
    - bjourne 6y ago
      My "judgement" is that it is abhorrent to view African asylum seekers who flee war-torn countries as "cancer". I don't think that is an American standard. I don't think it is disrespectful to claim that it is racist to compare humans with cancer.
- 0x49fa98 6y ago
  its not anti-Israeli to refute the statement "Foreign powers did not create Israel. Jews did." by pointing out the actual Middle Eastern Jews who lived in the region are the ones doing the worst in modern Israel

arken 6y ago

Forgive me, but that’s a pretty one sided view to take. The local Jewish population was certainly instrumental as were Zionist groups in the UK and elsewhere. But you’re fooling yourself if you think great power diplomacy and the region’s colonial history weren’t also important factors. I’d encourage you to look into the history of the British mandate, the Balfour Declaration, and the lead up to the 1947 Partition Plan/1948 War. It’s a fascinating story if nothing else.

NeverFade 6y ago
The British mandate authorities outlawed all Jewish defense forces and tried to confiscate all arms from the Jewish population before they left the region. They also actively prevented Jews from immigrating to Israel: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_insurgency_in_Mandatory_Palestine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_insurgency_in_Mandatory... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Paper_of_1939 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Paper_of_1939 https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/british-restrictions-on-jewish-immigration-to-palestine https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/british-restrictions-on... To claim that the British were "a foreign power" that helped the budding nation of Israel is, simply put, the opposite of historical fact.
- arken 6y ago
  That doesn’t mean the British state played no role. Are you saying the Balfour Declaration had no impact on developments in the region from 1917-1947? I’m not saying the formation of Israel was 100% the result of intentional British foreign policy. Foreign policy is messy and inconsistent. The various actors in the region were seeking different things at different times. Yes the British were in some cases trying to disarm Jewish militants, but in many cases they were also the ones who had handed out the arms in the first place (eg. The Jewish Brigade). I don’t see how you can dispute that this a messy, contested historical saga with many factors to consider. I urge you to read more widely on this topic. If you’re so certain that your position is the correct one, you stand only to confirm your existing beliefs.
  - NeverFade 6y ago