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To answer your "Why the downvotes?" question, two possibilities occur to me: 1) They may be folk concerned with the justice of the situation invested enough in

To answer your "Why the downvotes?" question, two possibilities occur to me: 1) They may be folk concerned with the justice of the situation invested enough in this issue that they're reacting to your question with something like "Are you living under a rock?". 2) There may be folk invested enough in the mainland Chinese government's position that they take issue simply with the existence of these statements, and rather than engage with the substance of them, simply try to make them go away. Whether either of these are a fair reaction is a different discussion.

hertzrat 6y ago
I have read a ton of articles about the subject and the information I mentioned never came up. I think it’s not widely known. I checked with my wife and a friend just now, who both has followed the story over time, and they didn’t know those details either. I’m not blaming the media, I’m trying to highlight something I suspect isn’t widely known
- mytailorisrich 6y ago
  Why do you assume that everything you've just read is true?
  - marshmallow_12 6y ago
    I remember reading that the Chinese embassy once proudly tweeted something to the effect that they are "encouraging" Ughyr ladies to get sterilized
    - mytailorisrich 6y ago
      China has had a strict population control policy for decades. Minorities, including Uyghurs, have in fact been allowed to have more children than the majority Han people, and I believe that for a long time Uyghurs 'got away' with having even more children than allowed in law. Do you think that the Chinese government would boast about committing genocide? If they did tweet what you say they did it is because that's part of their national policy and they don't see anything negative about encouraging people to have less children. Point being this is propaganda against propaganda and neither you nor I know for a fact what is going on in Xinjiang. I also find it odd that people accept for fact what they read on the website quoted here, which I'm sure no-one knows and, if you search a bit, may not be so reliable. I mean it could be true, but at face value it could equally not be true for all I know. Now, to show how civil discussion on HN is, and to show that this is cancel culture in full swing, people are now going through my comments history to downvote them all.
      - marshmallow_12 6y ago
        I placed the word "encourage" in inverted commas. It's probably at best coercion and at worst..
      - azekai 6y ago
        >Point being this is propaganda against propaganda and neither you nor I know for a fact what is going on in Xinjiang. >Now, to show how civil discussion on HN is, and to show that this is cancel culture in full swing, people are now going through my comments history to downvote them all. You sound like a useful idiot, at best. Shrugging and saying 'we can't know what is happening' is not the correct stance to take against even potential genocide. It is in the best interest of the CCP to obfuscate what is going on. I am sure the truth is very ugly indeed. Governments (especially regimes like China's) don't forcibly put people in camps to be kind to them.
    - dillondoyle 6y ago
      They did and Twitter removed it. CCP called this genocide a success. It's so sad. They also reported CCP called Uygur women 'baby-making machines'.... Plus CCP published themselves large large drops in reproduction among Uighur women: "Between 2017 and 2019, the birth rate in Xinjiang almost halved, dropping from 15.88 per cent in 2017 to 8.14 in 2019, according to an annual report compiled by the National Bureau of Statistics of China." https://hongkongfp.com/2021/02/25/chinese-govt-figures-show-sharp-decline-in-xinjiang-birth-rate-amid-mounting-claims-of-uighur-genocide/ https://hongkongfp.com/2021/02/25/chinese-govt-figures-show-... The Guardian article: https://archive.is/QAnl2 https://archive.is/QAnl2 Tweet text: Study shows that in the process of eradicating extremism, the minds of Uygur women in Xinjiang were emancipated and gender equality and reproductive health were promoted, making them no longer baby-making machines. they are more confident and independent.
  - hertzrat 6y ago
    It’s a fair question. I did not research the publisher before commenting.
- redis_mlc 6y ago
  You're correct that the US MSM has poor coverage on China because of pressure from the CCP, ad placements from the CCP, and journo-leftist solidarity. To learn more, you can watch the NTD media Youtube channels, especially China Uncensored and Crossroads. NTD is affiliated with Falun Gong, so they don't pull any punches - their reporters are based in the US, but still get death threats from the CCP. https://www.youtube.com/user/NTDChinaUncensored https://www.youtube.com/user/NTDChinaUncensored Also, there's a few vlog channels like serpentza/ADVChina that provide more background from people who lived in China long-term. Note these vloggers have all been forced to leave China in the past 2 years by the CCP, or face imprisonment. https://www.youtube.com/user/serpentza https://www.youtube.com/user/serpentza The reality is that most people can't handle the truth about what the CCP is doing - who wants to study the horrors of a 2021 version of Auschwitz? For example: - women are in the camps to disrupt their reproductive cycle (live births are down 90%) - the camps are organ harvesting pools. China's hospital system is funded by organ medical tourists and organ exports. So ... how much do you really want to know?
dillondoyle 6y ago
Downvotes incoming for me. I honestly believe that HN threads on CCP are targeted/brigaded. I am like 40% in going so far as to say a target of known to exist comment farms (CCP even has a game-ized crowdsourced app for this). HN is a perfect target: low volume, high impact with an audience that has much more power than the average FB user. There are so many examples of whataboutism, misdirection, bad faith wrong facts throughout this thread alone. Just below this parent someone blames the reporting 'Why do you assume that everything you've just read is true?' I find that outrageous. There are vast vast amounts of evidence and so much reporting from so many respectable outlets across the spectrum including outside the US. If you're interested on learning more I recommend checking out the recent Fronline episode which has actual leaked primary sources from CCP itself & emotional testimonials escapees (china calls them graduates :( ). Another example is this recent and well reported detailed New Yorker article which didn't get any traction on HN.... https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26277641 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26277641
- aptidude187 6y ago
  >I honestly believe that HN threads on CCP are targeted/brigaded. Spot on, there is no doubt about that. Mere seconds after posting anything that's remotely not pro-china will be downvoted to oblivion. This thread was on the front page and then it almost instantly disappeared.
  - munk-a 6y ago
    If either of you suspect that please email hn@ycombinator.com as per guidelines and don't start a thread on it https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
    - mytailorisrich 6y ago
      They do not care. People downvote in bulk and then also go though your history and downvote everything. This has just happened to me for being critical of this report, so clearly it's not only the alleged "pro-China conspiracy" doing the downvoting. That's simply how it is on HN for controversial topics and that's inevitable when downvotes are weaponised by design.

hertzrat 6y ago

I have read a ton of articles about the subject and the information I mentioned never came up. I think it’s not widely known. I checked with my wife and a friend just now, who both has followed the story over time, and they didn’t know those details either. I’m not blaming the media, I’m trying to highlight something I suspect isn’t widely known

mytailorisrich 6y ago
Why do you assume that everything you've just read is true?
- marshmallow_12 6y ago
  I remember reading that the Chinese embassy once proudly tweeted something to the effect that they are "encouraging" Ughyr ladies to get sterilized
  - mytailorisrich 6y ago
    China has had a strict population control policy for decades. Minorities, including Uyghurs, have in fact been allowed to have more children than the majority Han people, and I believe that for a long time Uyghurs 'got away' with having even more children than allowed in law. Do you think that the Chinese government would boast about committing genocide? If they did tweet what you say they did it is because that's part of their national policy and they don't see anything negative about encouraging people to have less children. Point being this is propaganda against propaganda and neither you nor I know for a fact what is going on in Xinjiang. I also find it odd that people accept for fact what they read on the website quoted here, which I'm sure no-one knows and, if you search a bit, may not be so reliable. I mean it could be true, but at face value it could equally not be true for all I know. Now, to show how civil discussion on HN is, and to show that this is cancel culture in full swing, people are now going through my comments history to downvote them all.
    - marshmallow_12 6y ago
      I placed the word "encourage" in inverted commas. It's probably at best coercion and at worst..
    - azekai 6y ago
      >Point being this is propaganda against propaganda and neither you nor I know for a fact what is going on in Xinjiang. >Now, to show how civil discussion on HN is, and to show that this is cancel culture in full swing, people are now going through my comments history to downvote them all. You sound like a useful idiot, at best. Shrugging and saying 'we can't know what is happening' is not the correct stance to take against even potential genocide. It is in the best interest of the CCP to obfuscate what is going on. I am sure the truth is very ugly indeed. Governments (especially regimes like China's) don't forcibly put people in camps to be kind to them.
  - dillondoyle 6y ago
    They did and Twitter removed it. CCP called this genocide a success. It's so sad. They also reported CCP called Uygur women 'baby-making machines'.... Plus CCP published themselves large large drops in reproduction among Uighur women: "Between 2017 and 2019, the birth rate in Xinjiang almost halved, dropping from 15.88 per cent in 2017 to 8.14 in 2019, according to an annual report compiled by the National Bureau of Statistics of China." https://hongkongfp.com/2021/02/25/chinese-govt-figures-show-sharp-decline-in-xinjiang-birth-rate-amid-mounting-claims-of-uighur-genocide/ https://hongkongfp.com/2021/02/25/chinese-govt-figures-show-... The Guardian article: https://archive.is/QAnl2 https://archive.is/QAnl2 Tweet text: Study shows that in the process of eradicating extremism, the minds of Uygur women in Xinjiang were emancipated and gender equality and reproductive health were promoted, making them no longer baby-making machines. they are more confident and independent.
- hertzrat 6y ago
  It’s a fair question. I did not research the publisher before commenting.
redis_mlc 6y ago
You're correct that the US MSM has poor coverage on China because of pressure from the CCP, ad placements from the CCP, and journo-leftist solidarity. To learn more, you can watch the NTD media Youtube channels, especially China Uncensored and Crossroads. NTD is affiliated with Falun Gong, so they don't pull any punches - their reporters are based in the US, but still get death threats from the CCP. https://www.youtube.com/user/NTDChinaUncensored https://www.youtube.com/user/NTDChinaUncensored Also, there's a few vlog channels like serpentza/ADVChina that provide more background from people who lived in China long-term. Note these vloggers have all been forced to leave China in the past 2 years by the CCP, or face imprisonment. https://www.youtube.com/user/serpentza https://www.youtube.com/user/serpentza The reality is that most people can't handle the truth about what the CCP is doing - who wants to study the horrors of a 2021 version of Auschwitz? For example: - women are in the camps to disrupt their reproductive cycle (live births are down 90%) - the camps are organ harvesting pools. China's hospital system is funded by organ medical tourists and organ exports. So ... how much do you really want to know?

dillondoyle 6y ago

Downvotes incoming for me. I honestly believe that HN threads on CCP are targeted/brigaded. I am like 40% in going so far as to say a target of known to exist comment farms (CCP even has a game-ized crowdsourced app for this). HN is a perfect target: low volume, high impact with an audience that has much more power than the average FB user. There are so many examples of whataboutism, misdirection, bad faith wrong facts throughout this thread alone. Just below this parent someone blames the reporting 'Why do you assume that everything you've just read is true?' I find that outrageous. There are vast vast amounts of evidence and so much reporting from so many respectable outlets across the spectrum including outside the US. If you're interested on learning more I recommend checking out the recent Fronline episode which has actual leaked primary sources from CCP itself & emotional testimonials escapees (china calls them graduates :( ). Another example is this recent and well reported detailed New Yorker article which didn't get any traction on HN.... https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26277641 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26277641

aptidude187 6y ago
>I honestly believe that HN threads on CCP are targeted/brigaded. Spot on, there is no doubt about that. Mere seconds after posting anything that's remotely not pro-china will be downvoted to oblivion. This thread was on the front page and then it almost instantly disappeared.
- munk-a 6y ago
  If either of you suspect that please email hn@ycombinator.com as per guidelines and don't start a thread on it https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
  - mytailorisrich 6y ago
    They do not care. People downvote in bulk and then also go though your history and downvote everything. This has just happened to me for being critical of this report, so clearly it's not only the alleged "pro-China conspiracy" doing the downvoting. That's simply how it is on HN for controversial topics and that's inevitable when downvotes are weaponised by design.