3 ms·

As the father of 6 years old twins (one boy, one girl) I agree with this 100%. My son needs more discipline than my daughter, he's more likely to get into troub

by mfenix 6y ago

As the father of 6 years old twins (one boy, one girl) I agree with this 100%. My son needs more discipline than my daughter, he's more likely to get into trouble at school, he likes physical activities, etc. almost the opposite of his sister.

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
jacobolus 6y ago
> son needs more discipline This does not seem like the right conclusion. More like "needs running around time and free play". Cf. e.g. https://www.alfiekohn.org/article/discipline-problem-solution/ https://www.alfiekohn.org/article/discipline-problem-solutio... https://www.alfiekohn.org/article/beyond-discipline-article/ https://www.alfiekohn.org/article/beyond-discipline-article/
- ed25519FUUU 6y ago
  Discipline is probably the wrong word. More training in order to succeed in an unnatural environment (modern school) is maybe a better way to put it.
  - stretchwithme 6y ago
    Or changing the unnatural environment.
    - Teknoman117 6y ago
      Sometimes the unnatural environment is significantly more difficult to alter (as an individual).
      - stretchwithme 6y ago
        Sometimes. But people can move their kids to a different school, the environment referred to, if they live in a free society. My parents did it. Sent to us to Catholic schools instead for many years. And we grew up on welfare.
  - dempseye 6y ago
    Domestication
- hc-taway 6y ago
  Two of my kids (one a boy and one a girl) act absolutely nuts and "must" have something like ADHD... until you make sure they run around outside at least 4hrs a day, consistently. Then they're fine. Unfortunately this is effectively impossible to achieve for 2-3 months every year, with school in session and short Winter days. They're in lower elementary school but I think their total recess time per day is only about 30-40 minutes, and much of the time they don't even get that because it's raining or too cold (pft, whatever, wear coats) or something else, and they have them watch a movie more often than not in those cases (nb. this is a "good" school district) We have one other kid—a girl—who doesn't seem to need this to not "act wild". The other trigger for "crazy" behavior seems to be when they're presented with unpleasant social situations and don't know how to deal with them. Like, say, being forced to be around kids who are mean to them. Gee, I wonder where that happens a whole bunch.
  - 908B64B197 6y ago
    Sounds they would need partial work from home during the winter.
  - zionic 6y ago
    Is it time to trial desk treadmills for grade schoolers? :D
  - jasonwatkinspdx 6y ago
    As someone that didn't get their diagnosis until I was in my 30s, I'd encourage you to talk to a doctor about what's going on. It definitely sounds like ADHD, particularly the social stress triggering acting out or avoidance. On the whole I've been fortunate in life, but it's not an exaggeration to say my life would be dramatically different if I'd learned what was going on as a kid. Instead it was interpreted as a character flaw: that I just wasn't applying myself. Even though I know that's wrong now intellectually, emotionally I still had that message beat into me for years as a kid, and that doesn't just go away sadly. I'd be particularly vigilant about teachers creating that dynamic, as sometimes they do it with good intentions but fail to understand doubling down on a "tough love" approach will utterly backfire here.
- garmaine 6y ago
  You made a lot of assumptions in that assessment.
  - jacobolus 6y ago
    Anecdotally, I have 4.5 year old boy and see a lot of similar-aged boys and girls at the playground, etc. (unfortunately not as much in our/their homes, during this global pandemic), and from what I see most small kids are just incredibly active a lot of the time. They crave (and physically need) hours every day spent running and climbing and swinging and rolling around, chasing each-other, etc. Furthermore, many of them are quite self-directed and stubborn. They get some idea in their head about something to try, and then want to carry the plan through and can get extremely frustrated if thwarted (whether by the plan's intrinsic problems, or by interference from other people). Sometimes the plans are problematic (e.g. «I wonder if I can get adult attention if I take every toy my younger sibling wants to play with, until they start sobbing»), but often the goals/plans are perfectly innocuous, but adults step in and block action for poor reasons or no reason at all, or because the adult wants the kid to be focusing on something different. After being thwarted at a few different projects in a row, kids can become very agitated and defiant, or even melt down completely. Once the kid has accomplished their immediate goal or given up on it, they sometimes instantly switch to some completely different idea, and don't want to switch back. It is incredibly difficult to convince a big group of young kids (and especially boys it seems, though many girls are also very active) to sit still and focus on some specific close work without conflicts, especially when they have pent up energy. Trying to force them ends up creating a confrontation, and plenty of kids are looking around for ways to push boundaries and get attention. This is entirely normal age-appropriate behavior, and should not be pathologized. Letting the kids choose their own activities and decide when to switch from one to another goes a long way toward avoiding unnecessary bad feelings.
    - garmaine 6y ago
      Sure, I believe you. I’m just saying the parent you replied to said his son needs a lot more discipline, but gave no co text for that statement. Maybe he’s saying that his son doesn’t want to do chores? We don’t know.

by mfenix 6y ago

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

jacobolus 6y ago

> son needs more discipline This does not seem like the right conclusion. More like "needs running around time and free play". Cf. e.g. https://www.alfiekohn.org/article/discipline-problem-solution/ https://www.alfiekohn.org/article/discipline-problem-solutio... https://www.alfiekohn.org/article/beyond-discipline-article/ https://www.alfiekohn.org/article/beyond-discipline-article/

ed25519FUUU 6y ago
Discipline is probably the wrong word. More training in order to succeed in an unnatural environment (modern school) is maybe a better way to put it.
- stretchwithme 6y ago
  Or changing the unnatural environment.
  - Teknoman117 6y ago
    Sometimes the unnatural environment is significantly more difficult to alter (as an individual).
    - stretchwithme 6y ago
      Sometimes. But people can move their kids to a different school, the environment referred to, if they live in a free society. My parents did it. Sent to us to Catholic schools instead for many years. And we grew up on welfare.
- dempseye 6y ago
  Domestication
hc-taway 6y ago
Two of my kids (one a boy and one a girl) act absolutely nuts and "must" have something like ADHD... until you make sure they run around outside at least 4hrs a day, consistently. Then they're fine. Unfortunately this is effectively impossible to achieve for 2-3 months every year, with school in session and short Winter days. They're in lower elementary school but I think their total recess time per day is only about 30-40 minutes, and much of the time they don't even get that because it's raining or too cold (pft, whatever, wear coats) or something else, and they have them watch a movie more often than not in those cases (nb. this is a "good" school district) We have one other kid—a girl—who doesn't seem to need this to not "act wild". The other trigger for "crazy" behavior seems to be when they're presented with unpleasant social situations and don't know how to deal with them. Like, say, being forced to be around kids who are mean to them. Gee, I wonder where that happens a whole bunch.
- 908B64B197 6y ago
  Sounds they would need partial work from home during the winter.
- zionic 6y ago
  Is it time to trial desk treadmills for grade schoolers? :D
- jasonwatkinspdx 6y ago
  As someone that didn't get their diagnosis until I was in my 30s, I'd encourage you to talk to a doctor about what's going on. It definitely sounds like ADHD, particularly the social stress triggering acting out or avoidance. On the whole I've been fortunate in life, but it's not an exaggeration to say my life would be dramatically different if I'd learned what was going on as a kid. Instead it was interpreted as a character flaw: that I just wasn't applying myself. Even though I know that's wrong now intellectually, emotionally I still had that message beat into me for years as a kid, and that doesn't just go away sadly. I'd be particularly vigilant about teachers creating that dynamic, as sometimes they do it with good intentions but fail to understand doubling down on a "tough love" approach will utterly backfire here.
garmaine 6y ago
You made a lot of assumptions in that assessment.
- jacobolus 6y ago
  Anecdotally, I have 4.5 year old boy and see a lot of similar-aged boys and girls at the playground, etc. (unfortunately not as much in our/their homes, during this global pandemic), and from what I see most small kids are just incredibly active a lot of the time. They crave (and physically need) hours every day spent running and climbing and swinging and rolling around, chasing each-other, etc. Furthermore, many of them are quite self-directed and stubborn. They get some idea in their head about something to try, and then want to carry the plan through and can get extremely frustrated if thwarted (whether by the plan's intrinsic problems, or by interference from other people). Sometimes the plans are problematic (e.g. «I wonder if I can get adult attention if I take every toy my younger sibling wants to play with, until they start sobbing»), but often the goals/plans are perfectly innocuous, but adults step in and block action for poor reasons or no reason at all, or because the adult wants the kid to be focusing on something different. After being thwarted at a few different projects in a row, kids can become very agitated and defiant, or even melt down completely. Once the kid has accomplished their immediate goal or given up on it, they sometimes instantly switch to some completely different idea, and don't want to switch back. It is incredibly difficult to convince a big group of young kids (and especially boys it seems, though many girls are also very active) to sit still and focus on some specific close work without conflicts, especially when they have pent up energy. Trying to force them ends up creating a confrontation, and plenty of kids are looking around for ways to push boundaries and get attention. This is entirely normal age-appropriate behavior, and should not be pathologized. Letting the kids choose their own activities and decide when to switch from one to another goes a long way toward avoiding unnecessary bad feelings.
  - garmaine 6y ago
    Sure, I believe you. I’m just saying the parent you replied to said his son needs a lot more discipline, but gave no co text for that statement. Maybe he’s saying that his son doesn’t want to do chores? We don’t know.