4 ms·

Nayirah testimony, WMDs in Iraq, the Libyan rape allegations, Syrian chemical attacks -- eventually you would think people would catch on to this playbook. I do

Nayirah testimony, WMDs in Iraq, the Libyan rape allegations, Syrian chemical attacks -- eventually you would think people would catch on to this playbook. I don't doubt there are serious human rights violations taking place in Xinjiang, but the term "genocide" is ridiculous, an allegation being deployed in support of the aims of U.S. empire.

LazyBoyAccount 6y ago
>but the term "genocide" is ridiculous, an allegation being deployed in support of the aims of U.S. empire. So why doesn't China allow independent investigations into what's really taking place? Maybe if they weren't hiding the truth people wouldn't be so quick to fill in the holes with their own stories.
- avaldeso 6y ago
  > So why doesn't China allow independent investigations into what's really taking place? Maybe if they weren't hiding the truth people wouldn't be so quick to fill in the holes with their own stories. Why they should? The burden of proof is on the accusers. "Independent" investigation guarantees nothing. Eg WMD in Iraq.
- AndrewBissell 6y ago
  Probably because they understand very well there is no such thing as an independent investigation.
- refenestrator 6y ago
  They do, there's lots of footage of Mandatory Patriot Camp and zero footage of actual genocide.
- CyanBird 6y ago
  > So why doesn't China allow independent investigations into what's really taking place? Remember the independent investigators in Iraq and how mocked they were in order to manufacture consent for the invasion after they found no wmds? Yeah, you might not, but the chinese leadership does remember that
Context_free 6y ago
Gulf of Tonkin. If you look at Arafat's Wikipedia page it says he was not born in Palestine and died (of course) of venereal disease. Insofar as how long it goes on, if you look at US WWI propaganda they were talking about German soldiers massacring babies in Belgium (the killing babies lie is a common one - from incubators to Assad gassing babies)
dirtyid 6y ago
Free fifth estate manufacture consent more effectively than state propaganda. Access to information ≠ ability to discern or be critical. Everyone taught to check veracity of sources, but no one even reads past the headline in the first place. Even most educated audiences demonstrate QANON levels of eating bad information especially when it comes to foreign policy or other subjects that they have tangential interest but strong tribal investments in. I grew up with strong state media, and at least people are suspicious of media by default. Free media brainwashing is too strong.
loceng 6y ago
By definition, the use of the word genocide [as it includes elimination of culture] is not ridiculous. Edit to add: Downvotes don't make my statement any less true.
dillondoyle 6y ago
Here is UN definition line by line. There are so many many sources but here is a good summary from NyTimes: http://archive.is/93x6g http://archive.is/93x6g Quotes from article under each line item definition. Again so many more sources but that would be exhausting to compile. - Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group "Those who have been held in camps describe a rigorous prison environment filled with monotonous political indoctrination and, for many, terrorizing bouts of violence and physical abuse by guards." -Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part "Officials have held one million or more people in internment camps in Xinjiang, the country’s most sweeping mass detention program since the Mao era. A wide range of behavior can lead to detention, including acts of religious devotion, travel to certain countries, violations of birth restrictions or installing cellphone apps that allow encrypted messaging." "And the authorities have carried out the widespread destruction of mosques and shrines while turning others into tourist sites." - Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group "has used repressive methods such as forced sterilizations." - Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group "Large numbers of children in Xinjiang have been placed in boarding schools designed to assimilate and indoctrinate them, according to the government’s published plans." - Killing members of the group Article doesn't have a quote and there isn't a lot of evidence here so it is likely not happening on a large scale. Though there are many deaths from poor treatment in concentration camps and forced labor camps.
tim333 6y ago
There aren't really any obvious reasons why the 'U.S. empire' would want to fake this one. It's not like they really want to get into a war with the country that makes most of their stuff.

LazyBoyAccount 6y ago

>but the term "genocide" is ridiculous, an allegation being deployed in support of the aims of U.S. empire. So why doesn't China allow independent investigations into what's really taking place? Maybe if they weren't hiding the truth people wouldn't be so quick to fill in the holes with their own stories.

avaldeso 6y ago
> So why doesn't China allow independent investigations into what's really taking place? Maybe if they weren't hiding the truth people wouldn't be so quick to fill in the holes with their own stories. Why they should? The burden of proof is on the accusers. "Independent" investigation guarantees nothing. Eg WMD in Iraq.
AndrewBissell 6y ago
Probably because they understand very well there is no such thing as an independent investigation.
refenestrator 6y ago
They do, there's lots of footage of Mandatory Patriot Camp and zero footage of actual genocide.
CyanBird 6y ago
> So why doesn't China allow independent investigations into what's really taking place? Remember the independent investigators in Iraq and how mocked they were in order to manufacture consent for the invasion after they found no wmds? Yeah, you might not, but the chinese leadership does remember that

Context_free 6y ago

Gulf of Tonkin. If you look at Arafat's Wikipedia page it says he was not born in Palestine and died (of course) of venereal disease. Insofar as how long it goes on, if you look at US WWI propaganda they were talking about German soldiers massacring babies in Belgium (the killing babies lie is a common one - from incubators to Assad gassing babies)

dirtyid 6y ago

Free fifth estate manufacture consent more effectively than state propaganda. Access to information ≠ ability to discern or be critical. Everyone taught to check veracity of sources, but no one even reads past the headline in the first place. Even most educated audiences demonstrate QANON levels of eating bad information especially when it comes to foreign policy or other subjects that they have tangential interest but strong tribal investments in. I grew up with strong state media, and at least people are suspicious of media by default. Free media brainwashing is too strong.

loceng 6y ago

By definition, the use of the word genocide [as it includes elimination of culture] is not ridiculous. Edit to add: Downvotes don't make my statement any less true.

dillondoyle 6y ago

Here is UN definition line by line. There are so many many sources but here is a good summary from NyTimes: http://archive.is/93x6g http://archive.is/93x6g Quotes from article under each line item definition. Again so many more sources but that would be exhausting to compile. - Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group "Those who have been held in camps describe a rigorous prison environment filled with monotonous political indoctrination and, for many, terrorizing bouts of violence and physical abuse by guards." -Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part "Officials have held one million or more people in internment camps in Xinjiang, the country’s most sweeping mass detention program since the Mao era. A wide range of behavior can lead to detention, including acts of religious devotion, travel to certain countries, violations of birth restrictions or installing cellphone apps that allow encrypted messaging." "And the authorities have carried out the widespread destruction of mosques and shrines while turning others into tourist sites." - Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group "has used repressive methods such as forced sterilizations." - Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group "Large numbers of children in Xinjiang have been placed in boarding schools designed to assimilate and indoctrinate them, according to the government’s published plans." - Killing members of the group Article doesn't have a quote and there isn't a lot of evidence here so it is likely not happening on a large scale. Though there are many deaths from poor treatment in concentration camps and forced labor camps.

tim333 6y ago

There aren't really any obvious reasons why the 'U.S. empire' would want to fake this one. It's not like they really want to get into a war with the country that makes most of their stuff.