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> China has simultaneously pursued a dual systematic strategy of forcibly sterilizing Uyghur women of childbearing age and interning Uyghur men of child-bearing

> China has simultaneously pursued a dual systematic strategy of forcibly sterilizing Uyghur women of childbearing age and interning Uyghur men of child-bearing years, > According to Government statistics and directives, including to “carry out family planning sterilization,” “lower fertility levels,” and ”leave no blind spots,” > China began building a vast network of massive State- run, highly securitized boarding schools and orphanages to confine Uyghur children, including infants, full time. > local authorities have eliminated Uyghur education, destroyed Uyghur architecture and household features, and damaged, altered, or completely demolished the vast majority of mosques and sacred sites in the region, I had not heard of any of this before today. The news only talked about internment, surveillance, and forced labour. Edit: Why the flood of downvotes? Are the quotes offending people? They are directly from the executive summary of the report

danShumway 6y ago
Threads like this aren't going to reach the top of HN very often (or in my experience, other social networking sites either), they get flagged and downvoted to oblivion. HN policy prohibits me from speculating why, but you can fill in the blanks. There have been multiple media reports, but it's reasonable you might not have run into them outside of the context of "the PRC is vaguely doing something bad to Uyghurs". But yeah, the reality of what's going on is kind of horrifying, and I think the reaction from other nations (including the US) has been underwhelming.
- antibuddy 6y ago
  I can also fill out the blanks without violating HN policy. Nobody wants political controversity on their site because it attracts a lot of related problems. It is obiviously part of the spiral of silence and therefore I don't like it much, but one can kind of understand why.
  - 99_Woodcutting 6y ago
    China is the sole exception for our "no politics, only tech" rule. They are a unique evil that must be destroyed.
  - illustriousbear 6y ago
    I understand it but reject it. If it's a problem for the platform owners, I'll be even more political. Screw them.
- 99_Woodcutting 6y ago
  China is the sole exception to hackernews's "no politics, only tech talk" rule. They are a unique evil that must be destroyed.
  - tim333 6y ago
    That isn't really the rule. They say On-Topic: Anything that good hackers would find interesting... Off-Topic: Most stories about politics, or crime, or sports, unless they're evidence of some interesting new phenomenon... I guess a Uyghur genocide could qualify as something like an 'interesting new phenomenon' though I wouldn't normally describe it that way.
hertzrat 6y ago
Why the flood of downvotes? Are the quotes offending people? They are directly from the executive summary of the report
- Y-bar 6y ago
  It seems you are Just Asking Questions about a subject whose answers are readily available in a Wikipedia Article with 300 citations: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uyghur_genocide https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uyghur_genocide Nobody but you knows where you get your information from, but it would help if you showed some effort of why you think it has not been reported before (when it has).
  - hertzrat 6y ago
    You’re doubting the source of my quotes and saying I shouldn’t have posted them if there is already online documentation on it?
    - Y-bar 6y ago
      No, from my perspective this is why you get down-voted: > I had not heard of any of this before today. The news only talked about internment, surveillance, and forced labour. You seem to lay blame on the media for not telling you about this when it has previously been reported. For example BBC has consistently reported on this, so you apparently do not read BBC or check Wikipedia when a new subject arises where you find something you have not heard about before. > China forcing birth control on Uighurs to suppress population, report says > https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-53220713 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-53220713 BBC 2020 > China Muslims: Xinjiang schools used to separate children from families > https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-48825090 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-48825090 BBC 2019 It is medias job to report stuff, but it is also our job to actually read it and not blame media when we fail to do so.
      - hertzrat 6y ago
        I’m not blaming anyone, I’m saying I’m surprised and that it’s new information for me. Stop mind reading
zhengyi13 6y ago
To answer your "Why the downvotes?" question, two possibilities occur to me: 1) They may be folk concerned with the justice of the situation invested enough in this issue that they're reacting to your question with something like "Are you living under a rock?". 2) There may be folk invested enough in the mainland Chinese government's position that they take issue simply with the existence of these statements, and rather than engage with the substance of them, simply try to make them go away. Whether either of these are a fair reaction is a different discussion.
- hertzrat 6y ago
  I have read a ton of articles about the subject and the information I mentioned never came up. I think it’s not widely known. I checked with my wife and a friend just now, who both has followed the story over time, and they didn’t know those details either. I’m not blaming the media, I’m trying to highlight something I suspect isn’t widely known
  - mytailorisrich 6y ago
    Why do you assume that everything you've just read is true?
    - marshmallow_12 6y ago
      I remember reading that the Chinese embassy once proudly tweeted something to the effect that they are "encouraging" Ughyr ladies to get sterilized
      - mytailorisrich 6y ago
        China has had a strict population control policy for decades. Minorities, including Uyghurs, have in fact been allowed to have more children than the majority Han people, and I believe that for a long time Uyghurs 'got away' with having even more children than allowed in law. Do you think that the Chinese government would boast about committing genocide? If they did tweet what you say they did it is because that's part of their national policy and they don't see anything negative about encouraging people to have less children. Point being this is propaganda against propaganda and neither you nor I know for a fact what is going on in Xinjiang. I also find it odd that people accept for fact what they read on the website quoted here, which I'm sure no-one knows and, if you search a bit, may not be so reliable. I mean it could be true, but at face value it could equally not be true for all I know. Now, to show how civil discussion on HN is, and to show that this is cancel culture in full swing, people are now going through my comments history to downvote them all.
whimsicalism 6y ago
> China has simultaneously pursued a dual systematic strategy of forcibly sterilizing Uyghur women of childbearing age and interning Uyghur men of child-bearing years, I hadn't heard about this. I wonder if these are people who have already had more than two kids and this is China taking actions in compliance with their two-child policy, or whether they are sterilizing people who have had two or fewer. Regardless, I doubt the policy is being enforced equally as stringently among Han Chinese.
fossuser 6y ago
This would be my guess: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/50_Cent_Party https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/50_Cent_Party There's often wild voting in China related comment threads.
- hertzrat 6y ago
  Every time this post got to +1, it got hammered to -2 within seconds until a few minutes ago. This happened every few minutes for the last hour until the story left the front page, and now it’s +9 and there are no downvotes to be seen. I know we’re not supposed to talk about downvotes, but I think I maybe just got suppressed. It was really, really weird watching it. Is it possible to report it for investigation? I don’t care about my karma or even being told the results of the investigation, but I’d love it if a mod looked into this
  - tim333 6y ago
    I guess they could look into it but it's going to be tricky to do much and China politics isn't really HNs specialist area. Maybe it's easier to put up with weird downvotes on such things?
- mytailorisrich 6y ago
  I made comments critical of this institute's credibility and not only they were immediately downvoted but people then went through my comments history and downvoted all my previous comments they could. Clearly your 50 cent party works both ways. Now I think it's insulting to suggest that commenters who dissent are paid by someone as if there was an obvious correct opinion and any other was obviously faked, but there is also a general problem with allowing things like 'downvotes' because they are always weaponised and they kill discussion. Unfortunately the same goes with flagging as that can automatically suppress a comment.
  - hertzrat 6y ago
    I looked at your comment history and it’s true, your previous posts did get attacked with downvotes. That’s lousy, it isn’t the right way to challenge somebody

danShumway 6y ago

Threads like this aren't going to reach the top of HN very often (or in my experience, other social networking sites either), they get flagged and downvoted to oblivion. HN policy prohibits me from speculating why, but you can fill in the blanks. There have been multiple media reports, but it's reasonable you might not have run into them outside of the context of "the PRC is vaguely doing something bad to Uyghurs". But yeah, the reality of what's going on is kind of horrifying, and I think the reaction from other nations (including the US) has been underwhelming.

antibuddy 6y ago
I can also fill out the blanks without violating HN policy. Nobody wants political controversity on their site because it attracts a lot of related problems. It is obiviously part of the spiral of silence and therefore I don't like it much, but one can kind of understand why.
- 99_Woodcutting 6y ago
  China is the sole exception for our "no politics, only tech" rule. They are a unique evil that must be destroyed.
- illustriousbear 6y ago
  I understand it but reject it. If it's a problem for the platform owners, I'll be even more political. Screw them.
99_Woodcutting 6y ago
China is the sole exception to hackernews's "no politics, only tech talk" rule. They are a unique evil that must be destroyed.
- tim333 6y ago
  That isn't really the rule. They say On-Topic: Anything that good hackers would find interesting... Off-Topic: Most stories about politics, or crime, or sports, unless they're evidence of some interesting new phenomenon... I guess a Uyghur genocide could qualify as something like an 'interesting new phenomenon' though I wouldn't normally describe it that way.

hertzrat 6y ago

Why the flood of downvotes? Are the quotes offending people? They are directly from the executive summary of the report

Y-bar 6y ago
It seems you are Just Asking Questions about a subject whose answers are readily available in a Wikipedia Article with 300 citations: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uyghur_genocide https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uyghur_genocide Nobody but you knows where you get your information from, but it would help if you showed some effort of why you think it has not been reported before (when it has).
- hertzrat 6y ago
  You’re doubting the source of my quotes and saying I shouldn’t have posted them if there is already online documentation on it?
  - Y-bar 6y ago
    No, from my perspective this is why you get down-voted: > I had not heard of any of this before today. The news only talked about internment, surveillance, and forced labour. You seem to lay blame on the media for not telling you about this when it has previously been reported. For example BBC has consistently reported on this, so you apparently do not read BBC or check Wikipedia when a new subject arises where you find something you have not heard about before. > China forcing birth control on Uighurs to suppress population, report says > https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-53220713 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-53220713 BBC 2020 > China Muslims: Xinjiang schools used to separate children from families > https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-48825090 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-48825090 BBC 2019 It is medias job to report stuff, but it is also our job to actually read it and not blame media when we fail to do so.
    - hertzrat 6y ago
      I’m not blaming anyone, I’m saying I’m surprised and that it’s new information for me. Stop mind reading

zhengyi13 6y ago

To answer your "Why the downvotes?" question, two possibilities occur to me: 1) They may be folk concerned with the justice of the situation invested enough in this issue that they're reacting to your question with something like "Are you living under a rock?". 2) There may be folk invested enough in the mainland Chinese government's position that they take issue simply with the existence of these statements, and rather than engage with the substance of them, simply try to make them go away. Whether either of these are a fair reaction is a different discussion.

hertzrat 6y ago
I have read a ton of articles about the subject and the information I mentioned never came up. I think it’s not widely known. I checked with my wife and a friend just now, who both has followed the story over time, and they didn’t know those details either. I’m not blaming the media, I’m trying to highlight something I suspect isn’t widely known
- mytailorisrich 6y ago
  Why do you assume that everything you've just read is true?
  - marshmallow_12 6y ago
    I remember reading that the Chinese embassy once proudly tweeted something to the effect that they are "encouraging" Ughyr ladies to get sterilized
    - mytailorisrich 6y ago
      China has had a strict population control policy for decades. Minorities, including Uyghurs, have in fact been allowed to have more children than the majority Han people, and I believe that for a long time Uyghurs 'got away' with having even more children than allowed in law. Do you think that the Chinese government would boast about committing genocide? If they did tweet what you say they did it is because that's part of their national policy and they don't see anything negative about encouraging people to have less children. Point being this is propaganda against propaganda and neither you nor I know for a fact what is going on in Xinjiang. I also find it odd that people accept for fact what they read on the website quoted here, which I'm sure no-one knows and, if you search a bit, may not be so reliable. I mean it could be true, but at face value it could equally not be true for all I know. Now, to show how civil discussion on HN is, and to show that this is cancel culture in full swing, people are now going through my comments history to downvote them all.

whimsicalism 6y ago

> China has simultaneously pursued a dual systematic strategy of forcibly sterilizing Uyghur women of childbearing age and interning Uyghur men of child-bearing years, I hadn't heard about this. I wonder if these are people who have already had more than two kids and this is China taking actions in compliance with their two-child policy, or whether they are sterilizing people who have had two or fewer. Regardless, I doubt the policy is being enforced equally as stringently among Han Chinese.

fossuser 6y ago

This would be my guess: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/50_Cent_Party https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/50_Cent_Party There's often wild voting in China related comment threads.

hertzrat 6y ago
Every time this post got to +1, it got hammered to -2 within seconds until a few minutes ago. This happened every few minutes for the last hour until the story left the front page, and now it’s +9 and there are no downvotes to be seen. I know we’re not supposed to talk about downvotes, but I think I maybe just got suppressed. It was really, really weird watching it. Is it possible to report it for investigation? I don’t care about my karma or even being told the results of the investigation, but I’d love it if a mod looked into this
- tim333 6y ago
  I guess they could look into it but it's going to be tricky to do much and China politics isn't really HNs specialist area. Maybe it's easier to put up with weird downvotes on such things?
mytailorisrich 6y ago
I made comments critical of this institute's credibility and not only they were immediately downvoted but people then went through my comments history and downvoted all my previous comments they could. Clearly your 50 cent party works both ways. Now I think it's insulting to suggest that commenters who dissent are paid by someone as if there was an obvious correct opinion and any other was obviously faked, but there is also a general problem with allowing things like 'downvotes' because they are always weaponised and they kill discussion. Unfortunately the same goes with flagging as that can automatically suppress a comment.
- hertzrat 6y ago
  I looked at your comment history and it’s true, your previous posts did get attacked with downvotes. That’s lousy, it isn’t the right way to challenge somebody