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The chinese people that build products are not the ones with the concentration camps. Pressure has to be on the top of the political spectrum, not on the regula

The chinese people that build products are not the ones with the concentration camps. Pressure has to be on the top of the political spectrum, not on the regular chinese citizen.

munk-a 6y ago
There are many ways to pressure the political spectrum, one of them is to take a stance on refusing import from the country - that will trickle up to the top of the spectrum. It's not particularly impactful for a company to do on it's own due to the size of the chinese economy (we'd need a coordinated national effort) but if the Uyghur Genocide is something you feel strongly about as a business owner you can probably relocate to other suppliers without that much of a raise in cost.
tablespoon 6y ago
> The chinese people that build products are not the ones with the concentration camps. Pressure has to be on the top of the political spectrum, not on the regular chinese citizen. That sounds nice, but your suggestion reduces the available options practically to zero (pretty much left with assassination and pointless sanctions against people with no foreign assets and diplomatic immunity when traveling). The people at the top of the political spectrum derive a large part of their power from the factories where those regular people work.
- dheera 6y ago
  By the same you could say the same cops that are murdering black lives are funded in part by the taxes of Silicon Valley companies. You could say Guantanamo Bay was funded in part by your taxes. You could say all the ruckus in Nicaragua was funded by your taxes as well. I personally firmly stand by not punishing civilians and private/mostly-private/mostly-civilian-held companies for the actions of their governments. Also, governments are not monolithic. Would you punish the National Park Service for the actions of the NSA?
  - badRNG 6y ago
    Just to add to this, the US has long held an antagonistic relationship with the International Criminal Court (ICC), and has shielded and acquitted war criminals as recently as last year. Are we going to blame American civilians for this behavior?
    - rascul 6y ago
      Regarding the relationship the US has with the ICC, see the American Service-Members' Protection Act. > ASPA authorizes the President of the United States to use "all means necessary and appropriate to bring about the release of any U.S. or allied personnel being detained or imprisoned by, on behalf of, or at the request of the International Criminal Court". This authorization has led the act to be nicknamed the "Hague Invasion Act". > The act prohibits federal, state and local governments and agencies (including courts and law enforcement agencies) from assisting the court. For example, it prohibits the extradition of any person from the U.S. to the Court; it prohibits the transfer of classified national security information and law enforcement information to the court. > The act also prohibits U.S. military aid to countries that are party to the court. However, exceptions are allowed for aid to NATO members, major non-NATO allies, Taiwan, and countries that have entered into "Article 98 agreements", agreeing not to hand over U.S. nationals to the court. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Service-Members%27_Protection_Act https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Service-Members%27_Pr...
  - tablespoon 6y ago
    > By the same you could say the same cops that are murdering black lives are funded in part by the taxes of Silicon Valley companies. That's nonsensical, and completely ignores the idea of power/control. The Chinese government has direct control over Chinese manufacturers, and derives power from them. Derek Chauvin or the MPD (for example) do not control or derive power from a Bay Area tech company Google, and have only a very tenuous relationship with it (if any). > You could say Guantanamo Bay was funded in part by your taxes. You could say all the ruckus in Nicaragua was funded by your taxes as well. And if you want to boycott American goods over that, be my guest.
- conanbatt 6y ago
  This reminds me to one of the rules in Hammurabi's Code. "If someone breaks the leg on one of your slaves, you now have the right to break a leg on one of his slaves". China has 1.4 billion people: do you think it's a good plan or even morally defensible to attempt to hurt all of them to get to affect a fraction of a fraction of wealth of maybe 200 politicians?
tomjen3 6y ago
That would be nice, but as I recall it some companies got caught with their fingers in the cookie jar, including Apple [0]. The screen on your iPhone might be made with Muslim slave labor. [0]: https://dailycaller.com/2020/12/29/apple-uyghur-lens-technology/ https://dailycaller.com/2020/12/29/apple-uyghur-lens-technol...
mensetmanusman 6y ago
Some of the chinese people that help build products are in the concentration camps. Not all of course.
- conanbatt 6y ago
  Very much in favor of not consuming products out of concentration camps.
stjohnswarts 6y ago
I know people are downvoting you, but you are correct. The only ones who can really apply power to China are state level actors. Nothing will come of boycotting Chinese products. If you want to buy "Made in the _________" then do it because you want to help the western (other?) economies rather than China, not because it will do anything to convince the Chinese government not to genocide a culture.

The chinese people that build products are not the ones with the concentration camps. Pressure has to be on the top of the political spectrum, not on the regular chinese citizen.

munk-a 6y ago

There are many ways to pressure the political spectrum, one of them is to take a stance on refusing import from the country - that will trickle up to the top of the spectrum. It's not particularly impactful for a company to do on it's own due to the size of the chinese economy (we'd need a coordinated national effort) but if the Uyghur Genocide is something you feel strongly about as a business owner you can probably relocate to other suppliers without that much of a raise in cost.

tablespoon 6y ago

> The chinese people that build products are not the ones with the concentration camps. Pressure has to be on the top of the political spectrum, not on the regular chinese citizen. That sounds nice, but your suggestion reduces the available options practically to zero (pretty much left with assassination and pointless sanctions against people with no foreign assets and diplomatic immunity when traveling). The people at the top of the political spectrum derive a large part of their power from the factories where those regular people work.

dheera 6y ago
By the same you could say the same cops that are murdering black lives are funded in part by the taxes of Silicon Valley companies. You could say Guantanamo Bay was funded in part by your taxes. You could say all the ruckus in Nicaragua was funded by your taxes as well. I personally firmly stand by not punishing civilians and private/mostly-private/mostly-civilian-held companies for the actions of their governments. Also, governments are not monolithic. Would you punish the National Park Service for the actions of the NSA?
- badRNG 6y ago
  Just to add to this, the US has long held an antagonistic relationship with the International Criminal Court (ICC), and has shielded and acquitted war criminals as recently as last year. Are we going to blame American civilians for this behavior?
  - rascul 6y ago
    Regarding the relationship the US has with the ICC, see the American Service-Members' Protection Act. > ASPA authorizes the President of the United States to use "all means necessary and appropriate to bring about the release of any U.S. or allied personnel being detained or imprisoned by, on behalf of, or at the request of the International Criminal Court". This authorization has led the act to be nicknamed the "Hague Invasion Act". > The act prohibits federal, state and local governments and agencies (including courts and law enforcement agencies) from assisting the court. For example, it prohibits the extradition of any person from the U.S. to the Court; it prohibits the transfer of classified national security information and law enforcement information to the court. > The act also prohibits U.S. military aid to countries that are party to the court. However, exceptions are allowed for aid to NATO members, major non-NATO allies, Taiwan, and countries that have entered into "Article 98 agreements", agreeing not to hand over U.S. nationals to the court. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Service-Members%27_Protection_Act https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Service-Members%27_Pr...
- tablespoon 6y ago
  > By the same you could say the same cops that are murdering black lives are funded in part by the taxes of Silicon Valley companies. That's nonsensical, and completely ignores the idea of power/control. The Chinese government has direct control over Chinese manufacturers, and derives power from them. Derek Chauvin or the MPD (for example) do not control or derive power from a Bay Area tech company Google, and have only a very tenuous relationship with it (if any). > You could say Guantanamo Bay was funded in part by your taxes. You could say all the ruckus in Nicaragua was funded by your taxes as well. And if you want to boycott American goods over that, be my guest.
conanbatt 6y ago
This reminds me to one of the rules in Hammurabi's Code. "If someone breaks the leg on one of your slaves, you now have the right to break a leg on one of his slaves". China has 1.4 billion people: do you think it's a good plan or even morally defensible to attempt to hurt all of them to get to affect a fraction of a fraction of wealth of maybe 200 politicians?

tomjen3 6y ago

That would be nice, but as I recall it some companies got caught with their fingers in the cookie jar, including Apple [0]. The screen on your iPhone might be made with Muslim slave labor. [0]: https://dailycaller.com/2020/12/29/apple-uyghur-lens-technology/ https://dailycaller.com/2020/12/29/apple-uyghur-lens-technol...

mensetmanusman 6y ago

Some of the chinese people that help build products are in the concentration camps. Not all of course.

conanbatt 6y ago
Very much in favor of not consuming products out of concentration camps.

stjohnswarts 6y ago

I know people are downvoting you, but you are correct. The only ones who can really apply power to China are state level actors. Nothing will come of boycotting Chinese products. If you want to buy "Made in the _________" then do it because you want to help the western (other?) economies rather than China, not because it will do anything to convince the Chinese government not to genocide a culture.