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And "litterbug" was a term invented by the packaging industry in a PR campaign that shifted blame about packaging waste from the manufacturers to the consumers.

And "litterbug" was a term invented by the packaging industry in a PR campaign that shifted blame about packaging waste from the manufacturers to the consumers. This is a low-effort content marketing fluff piece that just says this company's recommendation engine has a "serendipity knob." It avoids the pernicious bits like how business models built on eyeball engagement result in a death march towards maximizing engagement metrics, and engineering the most addictive filter bubble has proven a pretty effective way to juice some PM's quarterly numbers. Make a post on how to break that model, don't say "we have a serendipity knob tuned to 9.4%!"

sokoloff 6y ago
Litterbug is a real thing though, IMO. I don't want Coke to sell me a handful of Coke; I want it in a watertight container. If, when I'm done with that container, I throw it on the ground, how is that Coke's fault? Same question for a fast-food wrapper. Do we think McDonalds should serve its food loose?
- dkdbejwi383 6y ago
  They could lease the watertight container to you for a deposit, and when you return the watertight container to them, they clean it and re-use it.
  - dragontamer 6y ago
    What assurances do you have that said containers are washed between uses? A restaurant will wash their stuff to make sure that you're a return customer. But a big advantage of once-opened / once-disposed containers is that I can suddenly trust random street vendors with no relationship to me.
    - simias 6y ago
      If you're willing to trust your restaurant you should also probably trust Coca Cola. Not because I think Coca Cola is more honest, but do you imagine the PR nightmare if employee #832453 captures a video on their smartphone of dirty bottles being reused? This type of fraud/malpractice is much more likely to be seen in small restaurants with little oversight and loose processes that at a multi-million dollar bottling plant.
      - dragontamer 6y ago
        The issue isn't Coca Cola forgetting to wash reusable bottles. Its Street Vendor #455. Who is refilling reusable bottles and selling them to his customers. I'm talking about people sitting with coolers and ice, selling $1 soda or $1 water.
        dkdbejwi383 6y ago
        I mean how do you trust that the shops you buy plastic bottles of coke from aren’t getting them from some dodgy counterfeit factory? Or draining the bottles with a syringe and replacing the contents? I think you’re looking for a problem that doesn’t exist in the real world.
    - forgetfulness 6y ago
      We clearly need insurance agencies that attest to the lifecycle of the receptacles as backed by a blockchain. Or we could have laws and inspectors for that at the bottling facilities because the above is not going to work.
    - ceejayoz 6y ago
      > What assurances do you have that said containers are washed between uses? The same assurances I have that they didn't let a rat piss in it at the factory the first time around; inspections and safety regulations. I get my milk in reusable glass bottles. I have absolutely zero concern that they forgot to wash them between uses.
      - dragontamer 6y ago
        Reusable containers means that the container wasn't necessarily filled by Coca Cola. It could have been the street-vendor refilling glasses. That's the thing. A disposable container guarantees that the bottle came from Coca Cola. --------------- > I get my milk in reusable glass bottles. But you don't get your reusable milk from a street vendor. You trust your deliveryman, you trust the company they work for. You have a working relationship with them. (Or maybe you pick it up from a grocery store that you trust). I'm talking about a street vendor: someone you have absolutely no relationship with. How do you know that you can trust the street vendor? A sealed disposable bottle offers guarantees that reusable containers do not. That's simply a fact.
        ceejayoz 6y ago
        > That's the thing. A disposable container guarantees that the bottle came from Coca Cola. My reusable milk bottles come with a small plastic top that's recyclable and functions as an anti-tamper seal. No reason you couldn't do the same with soda; plastic Coke bottles already have this.
        dragontamer 6y ago
        I once bought a soda from the Philippines. They went to the back, and pulled out a reusable glass bottle with a straw in it. That's what got me thinking about this. I didn't see them unseal the bottle. Unless you buy a sealed bottle to begin with, you don't really know if it was reused. I admit that you have a good point: if the glass bottle had an appropriate one-time seal on it, that would be proof enough for me.
    - dandellion 6y ago
      You can trust random vendors because the container is sealed, and once open it can't be sealed again. Many "disposable containers" that we use can be filled with tap water and used again if you want.
    - diggernet 6y ago
      What makes you think random street vendor will be refilling it? Back when you could buy sodas in glass bottles in grocery stores, you could take the empty bottles (even ones from random street vendor) back to any grocery store, and they'd go back to the bottling plant to be sterilized and refilled. It was very common, and yes, people trusted random street vendors, because the bottles were sealed at the bottling plant. Really, if you are so concerned about random street vendors, you should consider that it is not hard at all to open a plastic soda bottle without breaking the seal ring on the cap, refill the bottle, and put the cap back on.
  - gruez 6y ago
    Multiple jurisdictions have bottle deposit schemes, which operate similar to what you described. It's not with reusable bottles though, presumably because the cost of transporting and cleaning the glass bottles outweighs the savings from reuse.
    - amanaplanacanal 6y ago
      The roadside trash where I live is never packaging with a deposit attached to it. This seems to work really well, as there are enough homeless and poor people willing to collect that stuff.
- umvi 6y ago
  It doesn't have to be binary. Consumer is responsible for making sure packaging ends up in the trash/recycling bin, but manufacturer is responsible for making litter-resistant products and packaging. For example, if your product is wrapped in thin plastic that comes apart in multiple pieces when you try to take it off... it's going to be a high litter risk compared to a can of soda which is a single continuous piece of aluminum.
  - gruez 6y ago
    >For example, if your product is wrapped in thin plastic that comes apart in multiple pieces when you try to take it off... it's going to be a high litter risk compared to a can of soda which is a single continuous piece of aluminum. It's hard to win. Thin plastic = less materials consumed and less fuel spent on transport. Switching to thick plastic might make it harder to litter, but the flak will just shift to how wasteful the packaging is.
- uihududhmd 6y ago
  I will occasionally spend time picking up litter when I go on walks. The waste I find, in order of volume, is primarily: 1) Food packaging 2) Automobile detritus 3) Construction material 2 is because parts fall off of people's cars. 3 is because construction material will fall out of the pickup truck beds that are used by construction workers. But the food packaging waste is dropped by people. If we accept the UX principle that it's easier to change the system than human behavior, then the best way to reduce the volume of litter would be to reduce food packaging waste. For example, if fast food, like McDonalds, were packaged in rapidly bio-degradable and low-pollutant things, like simple, un-dyed paper wrappings, then the amount of waste in the environment would be greatly reduced.
  - Nasrudith 6y ago
    Disney found the best way to reduce littering is very frequent trashcan placement but that has practicality issues to roll out enmasse. Making the litter less bad is harm-reduction.

sokoloff 6y ago

Litterbug is a real thing though, IMO. I don't want Coke to sell me a handful of Coke; I want it in a watertight container. If, when I'm done with that container, I throw it on the ground, how is that Coke's fault? Same question for a fast-food wrapper. Do we think McDonalds should serve its food loose?

dkdbejwi383 6y ago
They could lease the watertight container to you for a deposit, and when you return the watertight container to them, they clean it and re-use it.
- dragontamer 6y ago
  What assurances do you have that said containers are washed between uses? A restaurant will wash their stuff to make sure that you're a return customer. But a big advantage of once-opened / once-disposed containers is that I can suddenly trust random street vendors with no relationship to me.
  - simias 6y ago
    If you're willing to trust your restaurant you should also probably trust Coca Cola. Not because I think Coca Cola is more honest, but do you imagine the PR nightmare if employee #832453 captures a video on their smartphone of dirty bottles being reused? This type of fraud/malpractice is much more likely to be seen in small restaurants with little oversight and loose processes that at a multi-million dollar bottling plant.
    - dragontamer 6y ago
      The issue isn't Coca Cola forgetting to wash reusable bottles. Its Street Vendor #455. Who is refilling reusable bottles and selling them to his customers. I'm talking about people sitting with coolers and ice, selling $1 soda or $1 water.
      - dkdbejwi383 6y ago
        I mean how do you trust that the shops you buy plastic bottles of coke from aren’t getting them from some dodgy counterfeit factory? Or draining the bottles with a syringe and replacing the contents? I think you’re looking for a problem that doesn’t exist in the real world.
  - forgetfulness 6y ago
    We clearly need insurance agencies that attest to the lifecycle of the receptacles as backed by a blockchain. Or we could have laws and inspectors for that at the bottling facilities because the above is not going to work.
  - ceejayoz 6y ago
    > What assurances do you have that said containers are washed between uses? The same assurances I have that they didn't let a rat piss in it at the factory the first time around; inspections and safety regulations. I get my milk in reusable glass bottles. I have absolutely zero concern that they forgot to wash them between uses.
    - dragontamer 6y ago
      Reusable containers means that the container wasn't necessarily filled by Coca Cola. It could have been the street-vendor refilling glasses. That's the thing. A disposable container guarantees that the bottle came from Coca Cola. --------------- > I get my milk in reusable glass bottles. But you don't get your reusable milk from a street vendor. You trust your deliveryman, you trust the company they work for. You have a working relationship with them. (Or maybe you pick it up from a grocery store that you trust). I'm talking about a street vendor: someone you have absolutely no relationship with. How do you know that you can trust the street vendor? A sealed disposable bottle offers guarantees that reusable containers do not. That's simply a fact.
      - ceejayoz 6y ago
        > That's the thing. A disposable container guarantees that the bottle came from Coca Cola. My reusable milk bottles come with a small plastic top that's recyclable and functions as an anti-tamper seal. No reason you couldn't do the same with soda; plastic Coke bottles already have this.
        dragontamer 6y ago
        I once bought a soda from the Philippines. They went to the back, and pulled out a reusable glass bottle with a straw in it. That's what got me thinking about this. I didn't see them unseal the bottle. Unless you buy a sealed bottle to begin with, you don't really know if it was reused. I admit that you have a good point: if the glass bottle had an appropriate one-time seal on it, that would be proof enough for me.
  - dandellion 6y ago
    You can trust random vendors because the container is sealed, and once open it can't be sealed again. Many "disposable containers" that we use can be filled with tap water and used again if you want.
  - diggernet 6y ago
    What makes you think random street vendor will be refilling it? Back when you could buy sodas in glass bottles in grocery stores, you could take the empty bottles (even ones from random street vendor) back to any grocery store, and they'd go back to the bottling plant to be sterilized and refilled. It was very common, and yes, people trusted random street vendors, because the bottles were sealed at the bottling plant. Really, if you are so concerned about random street vendors, you should consider that it is not hard at all to open a plastic soda bottle without breaking the seal ring on the cap, refill the bottle, and put the cap back on.
- gruez 6y ago
  Multiple jurisdictions have bottle deposit schemes, which operate similar to what you described. It's not with reusable bottles though, presumably because the cost of transporting and cleaning the glass bottles outweighs the savings from reuse.
  - amanaplanacanal 6y ago
    The roadside trash where I live is never packaging with a deposit attached to it. This seems to work really well, as there are enough homeless and poor people willing to collect that stuff.
umvi 6y ago
It doesn't have to be binary. Consumer is responsible for making sure packaging ends up in the trash/recycling bin, but manufacturer is responsible for making litter-resistant products and packaging. For example, if your product is wrapped in thin plastic that comes apart in multiple pieces when you try to take it off... it's going to be a high litter risk compared to a can of soda which is a single continuous piece of aluminum.
- gruez 6y ago
  >For example, if your product is wrapped in thin plastic that comes apart in multiple pieces when you try to take it off... it's going to be a high litter risk compared to a can of soda which is a single continuous piece of aluminum. It's hard to win. Thin plastic = less materials consumed and less fuel spent on transport. Switching to thick plastic might make it harder to litter, but the flak will just shift to how wasteful the packaging is.
uihududhmd 6y ago
I will occasionally spend time picking up litter when I go on walks. The waste I find, in order of volume, is primarily: 1) Food packaging 2) Automobile detritus 3) Construction material 2 is because parts fall off of people's cars. 3 is because construction material will fall out of the pickup truck beds that are used by construction workers. But the food packaging waste is dropped by people. If we accept the UX principle that it's easier to change the system than human behavior, then the best way to reduce the volume of litter would be to reduce food packaging waste. For example, if fast food, like McDonalds, were packaged in rapidly bio-degradable and low-pollutant things, like simple, un-dyed paper wrappings, then the amount of waste in the environment would be greatly reduced.
- Nasrudith 6y ago
  Disney found the best way to reduce littering is very frequent trashcan placement but that has practicality issues to roll out enmasse. Making the litter less bad is harm-reduction.