6 ms·

It's a great time to be a roboticist.

whatshisface 6y ago
Hypothetically the union could negotiate for $0.01/hour less than what a robot would cost., which would be an improvement over $0.01/hour more than the bare minimum an individual worker of a certain skillset would accept.
- ed312 6y ago
  This is already happening - there is an absolute glut of warehouse robotics companies at this point. Mostly in adding robotics to legacy warehouses. New warehouses will almost exclusively be built with automation in mind.
  - whatshisface 6y ago
    Then it sounds like the workers are on the way out even if they don't unionize, so there's not much to lose.
    - s1artibartfast 6y ago
      Very easy position to take if you’re not a warehouse work worker that thinks a union is a difference between you losing your job
    - toast0 6y ago
      Automation is a cost optimization thing. If the union raises Amazon's costs, it pushes up the automation time frame. And if the union doesn't raise Amazon's costs, it probably didn't provide the workers any benefits. Then the question for workers becomes would you like to have this job for longer with current conditions or for less time with better conditions. I don't think an Amazon warehouse worker union is going to be able to get any sort of long term job availability promises from Amazon (but I could be wrong, of course).
sandworm101 6y ago
Unless the first step by the union is to forbid the use of robots. A union's first mandate is to protect jobs. Any technology that replaces union members with machinery is open to direct attack. I have seen this in the entertainment industry. Newsrooms wanted to replace camera people with what were effectively industrial robots that moved the cameras around the studio as needed. Unions put up all sort of barriers, as is their mandate. Similar fights happened when projectionists were replaced by digital tech.
- 908B64B197 6y ago
  Then the warehouse will get built right across state lines or actually be owned and operated by a subsidiary.
- bumby 6y ago
  Keep in mind the Union and Company enter a contract. The Union can’t just enact any policy they want. With that said, I imagine a “no robot” policy would be a non-starter for Amazon to enter into such a contract
  - sandworm101 6y ago
    "Never robots" would indeed be totally unworkable, but a union could easily argue for a specific number of human workers per square foot of warehouse space. Local governments would likely want to support such a scheme as it keeps money local. I imagine insurance companies have an opinion too on minimum manning levels for automated facilities.
    - bumby 6y ago
      They could but I would be skeptical if it would work. I’m speaking from previous robotics experience in auto assembly plants with heavy and established unions. Even then, line employment was decimated by robots.
- solsane 6y ago
  IMO, this would be a bad outcome for all parties involved. The jobs being replaced are highly tedious, ie, fold the box, put the thing in the box, repeat for next 8 hrs. Those displaced would likely find better jobs.

Hypothetically the union could negotiate for $0.01/hour less than what a robot would cost., which would be an improvement over $0.01/hour more than the bare minimum an individual worker of a certain skillset would accept.

ed312 6y ago
This is already happening - there is an absolute glut of warehouse robotics companies at this point. Mostly in adding robotics to legacy warehouses. New warehouses will almost exclusively be built with automation in mind.
- whatshisface 6y ago
  Then it sounds like the workers are on the way out even if they don't unionize, so there's not much to lose.
  - s1artibartfast 6y ago
    Very easy position to take if you’re not a warehouse work worker that thinks a union is a difference between you losing your job
  - toast0 6y ago
    Automation is a cost optimization thing. If the union raises Amazon's costs, it pushes up the automation time frame. And if the union doesn't raise Amazon's costs, it probably didn't provide the workers any benefits. Then the question for workers becomes would you like to have this job for longer with current conditions or for less time with better conditions. I don't think an Amazon warehouse worker union is going to be able to get any sort of long term job availability promises from Amazon (but I could be wrong, of course).

sandworm101 6y ago

Unless the first step by the union is to forbid the use of robots. A union's first mandate is to protect jobs. Any technology that replaces union members with machinery is open to direct attack. I have seen this in the entertainment industry. Newsrooms wanted to replace camera people with what were effectively industrial robots that moved the cameras around the studio as needed. Unions put up all sort of barriers, as is their mandate. Similar fights happened when projectionists were replaced by digital tech.

908B64B197 6y ago
Then the warehouse will get built right across state lines or actually be owned and operated by a subsidiary.
bumby 6y ago
Keep in mind the Union and Company enter a contract. The Union can’t just enact any policy they want. With that said, I imagine a “no robot” policy would be a non-starter for Amazon to enter into such a contract
- sandworm101 6y ago
  "Never robots" would indeed be totally unworkable, but a union could easily argue for a specific number of human workers per square foot of warehouse space. Local governments would likely want to support such a scheme as it keeps money local. I imagine insurance companies have an opinion too on minimum manning levels for automated facilities.
  - bumby 6y ago
    They could but I would be skeptical if it would work. I’m speaking from previous robotics experience in auto assembly plants with heavy and established unions. Even then, line employment was decimated by robots.
solsane 6y ago
IMO, this would be a bad outcome for all parties involved. The jobs being replaced are highly tedious, ie, fold the box, put the thing in the box, repeat for next 8 hrs. Those displaced would likely find better jobs.